CTS-V "plug and play" engine options
02-04-2015, 09:03 AM
#1
CTS-V "plug and play" engine options I DD an 05 CTS-V with 210k on it so I'm trying to figure out what my "plug and play" engine options are if the thing decides to go boom....
Obviously an LS6 would be the best option but I need to fix the car not ship in a motor from lord knows where because they aren't that easy to find on demand. I need a go to the junkyard, grab a motor, stick it in and go option because I need the car.
I could go with an LS1 but I'd bet it would require a re-tune....
Which leaves me with iron block options. One of the problems is that the LS6 has 6 holes on the block for motor mounts and from what I can gather here, the iron block motors can have either 4 or 6. The 4 bolt motors will require some sort of an adapter to go in the V so one of my questions is....
How many of you with LQ9/LQ4 engines know whether its got 4 or 6 motor mount holes in the block?
Thinking an LQ9 with a mild cam swap might would work in the car without a tune as it would be close enough to the LS6 performance wise to work alright with what the car already has. I can get a cam kit shipped in overnight......
I would have to use the LS6 intake and fuel rail which, from what I can tell, should work without issue on an LQ9. What kind of sensor locations would be different and is there anywhere to get extended pigtails to make this kind of stuff work?
Thanks!
Obviously an LS6 would be the best option but I need to fix the car not ship in a motor from lord knows where because they aren't that easy to find on demand. I need a go to the junkyard, grab a motor, stick it in and go option because I need the car.
I could go with an LS1 but I'd bet it would require a re-tune....
Which leaves me with iron block options. One of the problems is that the LS6 has 6 holes on the block for motor mounts and from what I can gather here, the iron block motors can have either 4 or 6. The 4 bolt motors will require some sort of an adapter to go in the V so one of my questions is....
How many of you with LQ9/LQ4 engines know whether its got 4 or 6 motor mount holes in the block?
Thinking an LQ9 with a mild cam swap might would work in the car without a tune as it would be close enough to the LS6 performance wise to work alright with what the car already has. I can get a cam kit shipped in overnight......
I would have to use the LS6 intake and fuel rail which, from what I can tell, should work without issue on an LQ9. What kind of sensor locations would be different and is there anywhere to get extended pigtails to make this kind of stuff work?
Thanks!
02-05-2015, 05:59 PM
#3
So, besides adapter plates, what would it take to swap an lq9 for an ls6 and could I get by without a tune?
Thanks for posting.
02-06-2015, 10:10 AM
#4
So I got lucky and found this thread with all of the GenIII Vortec sensor locations....
https://ls1tech.com/forums/conversio...her-items.html
As I would be using the stock LS6 intake/fuel rail, it looks like the sensors I would need to be worried about are...
1. Crank Position
2. Cam Position
3. Oil pressure
4. water temp
The research is telling me that the LS6 and the LQ9 share the same block/head sensor locations for the sensors shown above.
It also looks like the LQ9 and the LS6 share the same valley cover/knock sensor locations so I may be able to use the LQ9 valley cover. If anyone knows otherwise, please chime in.
So to answer my own question, if I get an LQ9 to replace my LS6, it should be plug and play (without wiring harness extensions or modifications). All I would need to do is make simple adapters for the motor mounts...
The last question to answer would be...How would the LQ9 run on a LS6 tune?
https://ls1tech.com/forums/conversio...her-items.html
As I would be using the stock LS6 intake/fuel rail, it looks like the sensors I would need to be worried about are...
1. Crank Position
2. Cam Position
3. Oil pressure
4. water temp
The research is telling me that the LS6 and the LQ9 share the same block/head sensor locations for the sensors shown above.
It also looks like the LQ9 and the LS6 share the same valley cover/knock sensor locations so I may be able to use the LQ9 valley cover. If anyone knows otherwise, please chime in.
So to answer my own question, if I get an LQ9 to replace my LS6, it should be plug and play (without wiring harness extensions or modifications). All I would need to do is make simple adapters for the motor mounts...
The last question to answer would be...How would the LQ9 run on a LS6 tune?
02-06-2015, 10:55 AM
#6
Make sense on a stock LQ9.
More research hints that the LQ9 has 1/2 point lower compression that the LS6, a milder cam and a heavier valve train but the heads are about the same. Was hoping a mild cam swap might get the LQ9 close enough...
I have yet to find a tuner around here that everyone seems to agree on so I want to shy away from it if possible.
More research hints that the LQ9 has 1/2 point lower compression that the LS6, a milder cam and a heavier valve train but the heads are about the same. Was hoping a mild cam swap might get the LQ9 close enough...
I have yet to find a tuner around here that everyone seems to agree on so I want to shy away from it if possible.
02-06-2015, 02:25 PM
#7
Mounts for the lq9 Thr lq4 and 9 all have just the 4 bolts holes and not 6. The gen 4 6.0 iron block, L76, has the correct mounting holes. However the gen 4 blocks will require you to move the knock sensors that are now in your valley cover to the side of the block. The cam sensor will get moved to the front cover vs the rear of the motor. I was researching this same possibility for my 05 V. The ls6 knock senors are a bit larger than the style sensor that comes on the gen 4 blocks. You may run into clearance issues with headers with the larger ls6 knock sensors.
As for mount adapters if you want to keep with the gen 3 style block(lq4 or lq9), search for Hooker 240sx LS swap.
https://www.holley.com/products/exhaust/mounts_and_crossmembers/engine_mounts/parts/12654HKR
They sell mount plates for swapping an LS into a 240sx. Interestingly they center the motor mount hole under the middle stand offs on the block, much like the Cadillacs mounting plates do. They also provide a link to creative steel mounts, which you guessed it look just like the CS Cadillac mounts. The ones for the 240sx are 2.90 inches tall. We know that creative steel Cadillacs mounts are 3.5 inches tall. However the mounting plates look like they may stick down about the same amount as the cast aluminum Cadillac plates. Not sure if they would work, but just by eyeballing them up they sure look like a solid place to start.
Honestly there are many places out there though that sell adapter wires and plugs to move the knock sensors and cam sensor. Aside from those sensors the only other major difference is the crank trigger, 24x vs 58x. But if your going to have a short block built you can tell them to just use a 24x. The 243 heads you have now would bolt right up to a lq4/9 block. Would they be the best option, depends on what you had done on the short block. Is it stock bore,stroked, over bored? All those factors will play into head choices.
Unless your going after crazy amounts of boost and are going to be running the hell out of it, I would personally stick with an aluminum block, you can get bare ls3 blocks for around 1500. The LS3 block would also have all the mounting holes.
Lastly you could always just have your ls6 block cleaned up and reassembled with fresh parts providing the block is in good shape. You can do a 383 stroker with an ls6. I got a few quotes and it seemed the going rate on that was around 3500. The great thing about the LS blocks, lots of options, just depends how far you want to take it and how much you want to spend.
As for mount adapters if you want to keep with the gen 3 style block(lq4 or lq9), search for Hooker 240sx LS swap.
https://www.holley.com/products/exhaust/mounts_and_crossmembers/engine_mounts/parts/12654HKR
They sell mount plates for swapping an LS into a 240sx. Interestingly they center the motor mount hole under the middle stand offs on the block, much like the Cadillacs mounting plates do. They also provide a link to creative steel mounts, which you guessed it look just like the CS Cadillac mounts. The ones for the 240sx are 2.90 inches tall. We know that creative steel Cadillacs mounts are 3.5 inches tall. However the mounting plates look like they may stick down about the same amount as the cast aluminum Cadillac plates. Not sure if they would work, but just by eyeballing them up they sure look like a solid place to start.
Honestly there are many places out there though that sell adapter wires and plugs to move the knock sensors and cam sensor. Aside from those sensors the only other major difference is the crank trigger, 24x vs 58x. But if your going to have a short block built you can tell them to just use a 24x. The 243 heads you have now would bolt right up to a lq4/9 block. Would they be the best option, depends on what you had done on the short block. Is it stock bore,stroked, over bored? All those factors will play into head choices.
Unless your going after crazy amounts of boost and are going to be running the hell out of it, I would personally stick with an aluminum block, you can get bare ls3 blocks for around 1500. The LS3 block would also have all the mounting holes.
Lastly you could always just have your ls6 block cleaned up and reassembled with fresh parts providing the block is in good shape. You can do a 383 stroker with an ls6. I got a few quotes and it seemed the going rate on that was around 3500. The great thing about the LS blocks, lots of options, just depends how far you want to take it and how much you want to spend.
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02-06-2015, 04:11 PM
#8
Thr lq4 and 9 all have just the 4 bolts holes and not 6. The gen 4 6.0 iron block, L76, has the correct mounting holes. However the gen 4 blocks will require you to move the knock sensors that are now in your valley cover to the side of the block. The cam sensor will get moved to the front cover vs the rear of the motor. I was researching this same possibility for my 05 V. The ls6 knock senors are a bit larger than the style sensor that comes on the gen 4 blocks. You may run into clearance issues with headers with the larger ls6 knock sensors.
As for mount adapters if you want to keep with the gen 3 style block(lq4 or lq9), search for Hooker 240sx LS swap.
https://www.holley.com/products/exha...parts/12654HKR
They sell mount plates for swapping an LS into a 240sx. Interestingly they center the motor mount hole under the middle stand offs on the block, much like the Cadillacs mounting plates do. They also provide a link to creative steel mounts, which you guessed it look just like the CS Cadillac mounts. The ones for the 240sx are 2.90 inches tall. We know that creative steel Cadillacs mounts are 3.5 inches tall. However the mounting plates look like they may stick down about the same amount as the cast aluminum Cadillac plates. Not sure if they would work, but just by eyeballing them up they sure look like a solid place to start.
Honestly there are many places out there though that sell adapter wires and plugs to move the knock sensors and cam sensor. Aside from those sensors the only other major difference is the crank trigger, 24x vs 58x. But if your going to have a short block built you can tell them to just use a 24x. The 243 heads you have now would bolt right up to a lq4/9 block. Would they be the best option, depends on what you had done on the short block. Is it stock bore,stroked, over bored? All those factors will play into head choices.
Unless your going after crazy amounts of boost and are going to be running the hell out of it, I would personally stick with an aluminum block, you can get bare ls3 blocks for around 1500. The LS3 block would also have all the mounting holes.
Lastly you could always just have your ls6 block cleaned up and reassembled with fresh parts providing the block is in good shape. You can do a 383 stroker with an ls6. I got a few quotes and it seemed the going rate on that was around 3500. The great thing about the LS blocks, lots of options, just depends how far you want to take it and how much you want to spend.
As for mount adapters if you want to keep with the gen 3 style block(lq4 or lq9), search for Hooker 240sx LS swap.
https://www.holley.com/products/exha...parts/12654HKR
They sell mount plates for swapping an LS into a 240sx. Interestingly they center the motor mount hole under the middle stand offs on the block, much like the Cadillacs mounting plates do. They also provide a link to creative steel mounts, which you guessed it look just like the CS Cadillac mounts. The ones for the 240sx are 2.90 inches tall. We know that creative steel Cadillacs mounts are 3.5 inches tall. However the mounting plates look like they may stick down about the same amount as the cast aluminum Cadillac plates. Not sure if they would work, but just by eyeballing them up they sure look like a solid place to start.
Honestly there are many places out there though that sell adapter wires and plugs to move the knock sensors and cam sensor. Aside from those sensors the only other major difference is the crank trigger, 24x vs 58x. But if your going to have a short block built you can tell them to just use a 24x. The 243 heads you have now would bolt right up to a lq4/9 block. Would they be the best option, depends on what you had done on the short block. Is it stock bore,stroked, over bored? All those factors will play into head choices.
Unless your going after crazy amounts of boost and are going to be running the hell out of it, I would personally stick with an aluminum block, you can get bare ls3 blocks for around 1500. The LS3 block would also have all the mounting holes.
Lastly you could always just have your ls6 block cleaned up and reassembled with fresh parts providing the block is in good shape. You can do a 383 stroker with an ls6. I got a few quotes and it seemed the going rate on that was around 3500. The great thing about the LS blocks, lots of options, just depends how far you want to take it and how much you want to spend.
This is all about cheap, quick, get it running in a few days if the stock motor lets go engine options. The mount kit looks nice but fabricating a set of adapters like the ones linked below shouldn't be hard or expensive so I was hoping to build a set of these and have them on hand just in case.
https://ls1tech.com/forums/cadillac-...6-cts-v-2.html
Building the adapters above would be cheaper for me that converting or adapting for the crank trigger so even though its nice to know the GenIV motors have the holes we need, I won't be going in that direction. I bet the GenIV motors are still bringing bigger dollars than the older GenIII motors are.
Based on the info gathered here, I'm thinking I can get an LQ9, drop the LS6 cam in it, the LS6 intake, build the adapters and plug this thing in without a tune for less than 2K....It might not run absolutely perfect but it should be very very close to the LS6 with the mods listed above...I hope