Rockrz

Anybody running MSD Ignition Coils on their LS engine?

I know some are saying this is a waste of money while others claim small gains on the dyno... is there any sure evidence I can read up on showing whether these are worth having or not?

dannyz

I think most here will tell you to save your money and spend it where it will actually help.

Rockrz

The manufacturer claims increased spark that increases horse power.

Seems like the government or some lawyers would bust them for false advertising or something.

That's what I'm having a hard time understanding is why some say it is a waste of money but the manufacturer claims scientific evidence that these provide an increase in power

Exidous

iTrader: (11)

They may increase power in certain situations but overall they just are not worth it. Unless you are running crazy boost and your spark is flaming out there is no need for anything other than the stock coils. Even the LS1 coils do really well.

You will only see a gain if the current setup isn't properly burning up the fuel. I was having break up issues. Went to a TR5 over a TR6 plug and all issues were solved. Coils were fine.

You are better off getting lower resistance wires like the MSD's. The Granatelli have the lowest resistance wire but I like the idea of the EMI suppression of the MSD design.

Paul Bell

iTrader: (9)

Stock coils work fine. MSD coils have shown to be unreliable.

Rockrz

Yeah, I already installed Taylor 409 Pro Race 10.4 mm plug wires along with a new set of AC-Delco Iridium plugs.

Can't tell much difference really other than it does idle smoother. I can hardly tell the engine is running

thunderstruck507

iTrader: (18)

They are expensive and prone to failure.

They simply are not even worth trying unless you are out of money to spend on: 1 7/8" longtubes, good high flow exhaust, Fast intake/tb, cam, professionally touched up aftermarket heads, underdrive crank pulley, suspension, tires, electric water pump, weight reduction, driveshaft, 12 bolt/9in/dana rear end with gears, stall converter or clutch, dyno/street tune, forced induction....I could keep going...

Literally the only things I can think of that would be a bigger waste of money would be junk like throttle body spacers, trying to change the MAF without a tune, E3 spark plugs, and truck nutz.

Rockrz

I did installed the Jet Powr-Flo Throttle Body mainly because that was the easiest way to get rid of the throttle lag present with drive by wire as their unit has different electronics than stock that takes care of this.

It most definitively made a difference because I can tell there is much quicker throttle response which give the feel of better low end torque so to me it was worth the expense just for that.

Not sure if their special design makes a lot of difference or not although their reasonsing sounds like it might add a slight gain...

thunderstruck507

iTrader: (18)

throttle body (as in the whole unit) or just a spacer are 2 different things

unless a throttle body spacer has nozzles in it for spraying nitrous oxide, it's not worth a damn thing besides its weight in scrap aluminum

Rockrz

No spacer, then entire throttle body itself. It is a direct bolt on unit that replaces the OEm throttle body

Jet tweaks the electronics in the throttle body to get rid of drive by wire lag which simply increases throttle response.

thunderstruck507

iTrader: (18)

That's cool! Never dealt a ton with the drive by wire stuff. The lag would bug the hell out of me too. Good to hear there are fixes like that available.

Rockrz

Yeah, I was kinda leary of the drive by wire thing after hearing about the issues with Toyotas having stuck throttles a few years back.

But, they claim it's very reliable so we'll see.

If it's not, then I would need to see if it is possible to alter my truck to install an old skool cable.

The wife probably wants a fat juicy life insurance policy so show she can be happy if things go sideways

stevieturbo

Stock coils work and are reliable....that's a great combination for any build !

Even better if they're free already attached to the engine lol

Rockrz

Yep, it's always good when an engine comes pre-assembled from the factory!

Maybe they should offer a cut rate deal where you could get all the parts and assemble it yourself.

Pharcyde50

iTrader: (11)

Stock Coils. Save your money

.boB

iTrader: (1)

The "power" of an ignition coil (like an alternator) is expressed in potential - 50K volts, 35K volts, etc. Potential being the key word here. It will only produce as much power as needed. If you have a stock engine, with stock plug gap, that 50K coil will only produce 30K volts; because that's all that's needed to make a spark.

If you increase cylinder pressures (static compression, dynamic compression, FI) then it becomes more difficult to produce a spark. That's why those engines need a smaller plug gap. Then you need a high voltage coil.

If you put a 100K volt coil on a stock engine, it will only produce 30K volts.

Paul Bell

iTrader: (9)

This is not true.

If you install a higher voltage ignition coil on an engine-any engine, it will produce it's rated voltage. EG: A 50,000 volt coil will generate 50,000 volts.

An ignition coil doesn't know or care what engine or what level of build & power it is.

There is nothing that "tells" a higher voltage coil to produce less voltage.

Plus, a higher voltage ignition coil will more reliability start the combustion process. This is why today's modern engines have coils with 35,000 volts or more. If higher ignition voltages were of no help, car makers would still be using coils rated for 10~15,000 volts.

.boB

iTrader: (1)

It is true. And, no, it won't. A 50kV coil will rarely - if ever - produce a 50kV spark.

The gap at the plug acts like an insulator. The voltage received by the spark plug rises in a sine wave, and not a square wave. Once the amps and voltage rises enough to ionize the insulator and jump the gap, it will. The energy is dissipated and the process starts over again.

Outside of the engine in warm air, it only takes about 5-10kV. At idle in a warm stock engine it takes about 20kV. As conditions get more difficult, it takes more energy to jump the gap. Heat, pressure, and increased gap make conditions more difficult.

No matter what coil you use, you won't see a 50kV spark on a spark plug bench test.

Stock coils produce higher voltages because they have to. Modern engines have much higher static and dynamic compression ratios than they used to. The 5.0 Ford Coyote engine is 11:1! And it runs on 87 octane pump gas. Couple that with leaner mixtures, hotter chamber pressures, bigger plug gaps, and higher red lines, and you need more spark energy to jump the gap.

Chris25

iTrader: (1)

MSD coils are a waste of money IMO.

Granatelli

I agree, for the most part the stock GM coils are awesome and durable. They can definitely make power well into the upper 800's. However there are too many studies showing a stronger ignition system still helps even at the 450 to 500 mark. So ya if you have a stock LS motor in the 300 to 440 range than there may be a better bang for the buck on you early investment strategy.

But please allow me to clear up 1 thing as it relates to Granatelli ign wires and EMI and RFI suppression. NOTHING does a better job of suppression then a resister spark plug. It is not the ignition wires job to suppress EMI or RFI its the plugs job.

For years ignition wires have created EMI and RFI so suppression wire was created to fix "the problem" Then everyone realized they were robbing Peter to pay Paul. The aftermarket and E.O.s then started marketing low ohm ignition wires but no one could do 0 ohm and still eliminate the RFI/EMI created by solid core wire.....UNTIL Granatelli. We figured it out and brought the best of both worlds.

So like they say - We did not invent anything - We just made it all work.

So to use the words of Exidous - The Granatelli wires have most EMI suppression