Which 102mm or 105mm throttle body is best?? Updated w/dyno sheet & video
#1
TECH Apprentice
Thread Starter
Which 102mm or 105mm throttle body is best?? Updated w/dyno sheet & video
OK I currently have a FAST 102 LSXR Intake with a FAST 102 Big Mouth throttle body but seeking information as some have suggested that I should switch to a Nick Williams. The switch has been brought up because of low air idle tuning for my 408. But I've been seeing a lot of builders using Holleys Billet 105mm and 95mm but would like to know of they are worth the $530 Holley wants for them over my current FAST 102.
Might also be worth mentioning that the cam is fairly large 243/251, .624/.624, 111 LSA and using FAST 60# injectors.
I've been told that the FAST 102mm is hard to tune and that the NW throttle bodies are much easier? But reading on Holley's Billet 105mm sound pretty good and have seen MAST Motorsports use them on builds.
Update:
Well got the car tuned by The Shop Inc. here in Lincoln, NE and they did a great job straightening out the old Mail Order tune. The Shop told me when I stopped by it made 466 at the wheels on his Mustang Dyno.
Might also be worth mentioning that the cam is fairly large 243/251, .624/.624, 111 LSA and using FAST 60# injectors.
I've been told that the FAST 102mm is hard to tune and that the NW throttle bodies are much easier? But reading on Holley's Billet 105mm sound pretty good and have seen MAST Motorsports use them on builds.
Update:
Well got the car tuned by The Shop Inc. here in Lincoln, NE and they did a great job straightening out the old Mail Order tune. The Shop told me when I stopped by it made 466 at the wheels on his Mustang Dyno.
Last edited by neblackshirts; 03-14-2017 at 03:02 PM. Reason: Added words
#4
Super Hulk Smash
iTrader: (7)
The Holley has some nice adjustments. However, the NW is good and the price is right. The IAC passage is a good size on it.
And if you need, just drill a hole in the TB. You can tune your airflow around it pretty easily. You could even try that in the FAST before spending more money.
And if you need, just drill a hole in the TB. You can tune your airflow around it pretty easily. You could even try that in the FAST before spending more money.
#5
TECH Apprentice
Thread Starter
The Holley has some nice adjustments. However, the NW is good and the price is right. The IAC passage is a good size on it.
And if you need, just drill a hole in the TB. You can tune your airflow around it pretty easily. You could even try that in the FAST before spending more money.
And if you need, just drill a hole in the TB. You can tune your airflow around it pretty easily. You could even try that in the FAST before spending more money.
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#8
#9
Super Hulk Smash
iTrader: (7)
And if you get to where you can't reset your TPS to 0% (.70V or so), then you'll need to drill the hole. That's where the Holley has some advantages - you can clock the TPS and open the blade more and adjust the IAC bypass without drilling a hole.
And then you'll have to tune your IAC table (since it's now way off) and then all of your PID airflow, Cracker/Follower, and everything else in idle airflow. I would estimate that it will take a pro about 2-3 hours to dial it in. Seriously.
A big *** cam is easier to tune than a 102.
And then you'll have to tune your IAC table (since it's now way off) and then all of your PID airflow, Cracker/Follower, and everything else in idle airflow. I would estimate that it will take a pro about 2-3 hours to dial it in. Seriously.
A big *** cam is easier to tune than a 102.
#10
And if you get to where you can't reset your TPS to 0% (.70V or so), then you'll need to drill the hole. That's where the Holley has some advantages - you can clock the TPS and open the blade more and adjust the IAC bypass without drilling a hole.
And then you'll have to tune your IAC table (since it's now way off) and then all of your PID airflow, Cracker/Follower, and everything else in idle airflow. I would estimate that it will take a pro about 2-3 hours to dial it in. Seriously.
A big *** cam is easier to tune than a 102.
And then you'll have to tune your IAC table (since it's now way off) and then all of your PID airflow, Cracker/Follower, and everything else in idle airflow. I would estimate that it will take a pro about 2-3 hours to dial it in. Seriously.
A big *** cam is easier to tune than a 102.
#11
TECH Apprentice
Thread Starter
Good info here, I'm basically wanting to find something easier to tune and maybe have better low rpm street manners. One tuner absolutely hates the FAST 102 currently on my car and has suggested the NW. Be he also wants me to scale everything down from the 102 intake and 102 throttle body to 92mm setup. But the car really runs hard on the 102 setup with a great flat broad power band peaking HP at 6400 and doesn't fall at all from 6400 - 6700 cutoff.
But if NW or Holley are going to be easiest to tune and offer benefits over the FAST I'll jump into that direction.
But if NW or Holley are going to be easiest to tune and offer benefits over the FAST I'll jump into that direction.
#12
Super Hulk Smash
iTrader: (7)
FAST is fine.
One thing to do... open your blade some more. Then move everything in your IAC table to the right... probably 10-14 columns to the right. And then do RAFIG (Base Airflow Configuration) and get that dialed in. You want to be in the 40s or so hot IAC counts with the idle airflow within 1g of the MAF and/or Dynamic Airflow.
Once that's done, you can work on the lazy off-idle of the FAST. That stupid hump in it is supposed to keep it from surging... but it makes it lazy. You need almost twice the throttle to go the same speed vs the NW part throttle. WOT it doesn't matter. One way around it is to just nuke the Follower table and at 2-4% TPS ramp up a lot of airflow and set the multiplier to something crazy in the 1200RPM column to give you more juice off the line.
One thing to do... open your blade some more. Then move everything in your IAC table to the right... probably 10-14 columns to the right. And then do RAFIG (Base Airflow Configuration) and get that dialed in. You want to be in the 40s or so hot IAC counts with the idle airflow within 1g of the MAF and/or Dynamic Airflow.
Once that's done, you can work on the lazy off-idle of the FAST. That stupid hump in it is supposed to keep it from surging... but it makes it lazy. You need almost twice the throttle to go the same speed vs the NW part throttle. WOT it doesn't matter. One way around it is to just nuke the Follower table and at 2-4% TPS ramp up a lot of airflow and set the multiplier to something crazy in the 1200RPM column to give you more juice off the line.
#13
FAST is fine.
One thing to do... open your blade some more. Then move everything in your IAC table to the right... probably 10-14 columns to the right. And then do RAFIG (Base Airflow Configuration) and get that dialed in. You want to be in the 40s or so hot IAC counts with the idle airflow within 1g of the MAF and/or Dynamic Airflow.
Once that's done, you can work on the lazy off-idle of the FAST. That stupid hump in it is supposed to keep it from surging... but it makes it lazy. You need almost twice the throttle to go the same speed vs the NW part throttle. WOT it doesn't matter. One way around it is to just nuke the Follower table and at 2-4% TPS ramp up a lot of airflow and set the multiplier to something crazy in the 1200RPM column to give you more juice off the line.
One thing to do... open your blade some more. Then move everything in your IAC table to the right... probably 10-14 columns to the right. And then do RAFIG (Base Airflow Configuration) and get that dialed in. You want to be in the 40s or so hot IAC counts with the idle airflow within 1g of the MAF and/or Dynamic Airflow.
Once that's done, you can work on the lazy off-idle of the FAST. That stupid hump in it is supposed to keep it from surging... but it makes it lazy. You need almost twice the throttle to go the same speed vs the NW part throttle. WOT it doesn't matter. One way around it is to just nuke the Follower table and at 2-4% TPS ramp up a lot of airflow and set the multiplier to something crazy in the 1200RPM column to give you more juice off the line.
#15
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The Holley has some nice adjustments. However, the NW is good and the price is right. The IAC passage is a good size on it.
And if you need, just drill a hole in the TB. You can tune your airflow around it pretty easily. You could even try that in the FAST before spending more money.
And if you need, just drill a hole in the TB. You can tune your airflow around it pretty easily. You could even try that in the FAST before spending more money.
#16
TECH Apprentice
Thread Starter
Thanks for the tip. I have not figured out how to get rid of the lean tip in condition at 1200 to 1600 rpm range. It will run very lean and needs alot of fuel between 1200 on 1600 rpms. The 102 is terrible from idle to 1600 after that is goes like mad.i only am at rpm range getting on the trailer so I haven't messed with it much.
#17
Super Hulk Smash
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Thanks for the tip. I have not figured out how to get rid of the lean tip in condition at 1200 to 1600 rpm range. It will run very lean and needs alot of fuel between 1200 on 1600 rpms. The 102 is terrible from idle to 1600 after that is goes like mad.i only am at rpm range getting on the trailer so I haven't messed with it much.
It needs more fuel because there is more air. I have an issue where at 800rpm my numbers in the VE table are pretty damn low and lean. But at 1200... the fueling goes off the charts. And it makes return to idle fueling goofy. So what did I do? I basically have it broken at idle (60kPa) and below that, I let the car goes as lean as it wants (coast in neutral to see if the fueling is oscillating) and adjust as needed. But as soon as you crack open the throttle, you need to add a lot of fuel. I found the difference to be over 15% difference between closed blade and open blade in the 1200rpm column.
The TSP 100mm MAF should also tune very easily. I got the car working with both the larger cam I had in and the new sc cam in like 10 mins total. Like literally. 10 mins. And I could drive it anywhere. SD tune has required a lot more time to play with the follower tables, PID tables, and everything else. The MAF just absorbs all that.
#18
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Thread Starter
Well I think that the 408 likes the current 102mm setup as stated above. Had people trying to talk me into a smaller setup but don't think that would be a beneficial move.
#19
Super Hulk Smash
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One other thing I've noticed... I have gone through two parts store IACs with my 102. Neither one responds correctly to the IAC commands. So I've had to hack my IAC table and really push the counts stratospheric to get it to behave. Of course, the IAC passage may be garbage compared to stock. But I haven't found a true stock replacement IAC valve. So until I do, I have to work around it.
You may have some of those same issues.
You may have some of those same issues.
#20
TECH Apprentice
Thread Starter
One other thing I've noticed... I have gone through two parts store IACs with my 102. Neither one responds correctly to the IAC commands. So I've had to hack my IAC table and really push the counts stratospheric to get it to behave. Of course, the IAC passage may be garbage compared to stock. But I haven't found a true stock replacement IAC valve. So until I do, I have to work around it.
You may have some of those same issues.
You may have some of those same issues.
https://www.holley.com/products/ls_p.../parts/112-583