Stock headers best - Car Craft Mag.
12-16-2004, 10:50 AM
#1
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Stock headers best - Car Craft Mag. Did you see the article in Car Craft magazine that tested the Y-body stock headers against LTs?
They found very marginal gains with the aftermarket headers; they said (i) the Gen 3 engines respond differently than most engines and (ii) the stock header was remarkably good.
I wish I never went with LT headers but its too late now....
They found very marginal gains with the aftermarket headers; they said (i) the Gen 3 engines respond differently than most engines and (ii) the stock header was remarkably good.
I wish I never went with LT headers but its too late now....
12-16-2004, 10:55 AM
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Are you kidding me. That is the dumbest thing that I have ever heard. Unless I just don't know anything about cars...which is not likely!!
Don't feel bad...LT's are one of the most pivital mods that you could possibly do to a car to see a performance increase.
Don't feel bad...LT's are one of the most pivital mods that you could possibly do to a car to see a performance increase.
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12-16-2004, 03:44 PM
#8
Originally Posted by robertbartsch
I wish I never went with LT headers but its too late now....
But still, I HIGHLY doubt all/most of it...just curious how they got those numbers though, those guys are normally pretty 'on the ball'.
12-16-2004, 03:52 PM
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What they actually said was the Y-body manifolds gave a huge gain over the f-body manifolds. The 1 3/4 LT's did marginally better than the Y-body manifolds, but the 1 5/8 and even 1 7/8 LT's just added more and more HP. They were suprised the 1 7/8 didn't add more, but were happy none the less. The crate LS1 they used dyno'd at 402HP with the y body manifolds, and in the neighborhood of 430hp with the 1 7/8...I'll have to double check the numbers, but I should be pretty close. They said for a street rod, using this motor the y-body manifolds would suffice in their eyes, since they obviously flow pretty well. It was more of an informative article on how while the old header trick still adds HP, the manufacturer is really close in their manifolds....
That's what I basically got out of their $7K test...
Chris
That's what I basically got out of their $7K test...
Chris
12-16-2004, 04:16 PM
#10
What this would basically mean is that any late model C5 that does a 1 3/4" long tube header with cats swap wouldn't see too much gain at all over the bone stock set up....but why have some shown damn near a 30rwhp gains doing just that in some cases? 
12-16-2004, 04:21 PM
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Originally Posted by LS1LT1
What this would basically mean is that any late model C5 that does a 1 3/4" long tube header with cats swap wouldn't see too much gain at all over the bone stock set up....but why have some shown damn near a 30rwhp gains doing just that in some cases?
It is common knowledge that LONG TUBE HEADERS...don't give more hp on any car!!!!!!
12-16-2004, 08:38 PM
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Yeah, who wants an 8% increase in power along with God knows how much torque? Of course, they may be perfectly satisfied since most of the stock motors their used to don't top 350hp at the crank. Has anyone else seen a lot of mainstream Musclecar mags totally drop the ball when dealing with modern muscle? They have some nice new EFI feature cars every now and then, but when they try to get technical it's like 
. Some of them were probably still trying to figure out which way to turn the distributor to advance the timing on their crate LS1.
. Some of them were probably still trying to figure out which way to turn the distributor to advance the timing on their crate LS1. 
12-16-2004, 08:49 PM
#15
Originally Posted by SouthFL.02.SS
LT's are such an important mod for a cam only or heads/cam setup.
12-16-2004, 08:57 PM
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Stupid question: did they run the longtubes with cats?
I have always had a feeling that a large part of the increase people see with longtubes is due to the fact that they usually don't put cats in the system. It's not that shorties suck that bad, it is that catalytic converters suck.
I have always had a feeling that a large part of the increase people see with longtubes is due to the fact that they usually don't put cats in the system. It's not that shorties suck that bad, it is that catalytic converters suck.
12-16-2004, 11:04 PM
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I can see it not making much more power but at least some, I say they swap in a decent cam and try it again!! I bet the numbers would be way off what a factory manifold can do versus a longtube setup!! That's the first thing most people do after a lid, and guess what....... a cam comes after that!!!! anyone who answered that correctly now has my permission to have a cookie!!!!!
12-16-2004, 11:25 PM
#18
Originally Posted by Another_User
Stupid question: did they run the longtubes with cats?
I have always had a feeling that a large part of the increase people see with longtubes is due to the fact that they usually don't put cats in the system. It's not that shorties suck that bad, it is that catalytic converters suck.
I have always had a feeling that a large part of the increase people see with longtubes is due to the fact that they usually don't put cats in the system. It's not that shorties suck that bad, it is that catalytic converters suck.
12-18-2004, 09:30 AM
#19
The fact is, you can only make as much power as the weakest link will support. On a 100% factory setup, most of the parts are pretty equal to where any one item change won't make that large of a difference. Case in point is if you add stage 2 ls6 heads to a completely stock motor, intake lid, manifolds ect, and you won't see much of a gain, maybe 10-15hp.
Point is, the full potential of headers will not be realized until you free up the intake track to the point where the exhaust becomes a bottleneck to making power.
All of the tuners/builders preach it all the time, it is the combination of the entire package that produces the results. That's intake lid, maf, throttle body, intake manifold, heads (which includes valve job, springs, lifters, valve size ect ect), spark plugs, plug wires, headers, O2 sensors, merge collector, ypipe or x pipe... Ok you get my point.
Fact is, on a totally stock motor, the exhaust isn't a huge restriction, especially on the 2001+ y bodies, because the motor will only make as much power at that point which is limited by the intake track. That is what I think the magazine was trying to say.
Now, put on a set of heads, cam, intake and you're going to see a 30-40hp gain going from manifolds to headers.
Point is, the full potential of headers will not be realized until you free up the intake track to the point where the exhaust becomes a bottleneck to making power.
All of the tuners/builders preach it all the time, it is the combination of the entire package that produces the results. That's intake lid, maf, throttle body, intake manifold, heads (which includes valve job, springs, lifters, valve size ect ect), spark plugs, plug wires, headers, O2 sensors, merge collector, ypipe or x pipe... Ok you get my point.
Fact is, on a totally stock motor, the exhaust isn't a huge restriction, especially on the 2001+ y bodies, because the motor will only make as much power at that point which is limited by the intake track. That is what I think the magazine was trying to say.
Now, put on a set of heads, cam, intake and you're going to see a 30-40hp gain going from manifolds to headers.
12-18-2004, 10:00 AM
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I just did my LT/Duals swap a month ago. On the same dyno, I went from 325 rwhp/340 tq (that was with tuning) to 352 rwhp/367 rwtq, and thats on a NITROUS TUNE!! As in, 12.7 af, 25 deg, TR-6's. Were I to retune for all motor with the new exhaust setup, likely would see over 360 rwhp and 370 rwtq. Thats 35 rwhp and 30 rwtq. Yeah, longtubes suck. 