What exhuast should I get
05-11-2006, 11:29 PM
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What exhuast should I get OK so currently I have a 2002 Camaro Z28 M6. The only Mod I have besides the free mod ( MAF screen off) is a SLP cold air induction kit ( Lid, smooth bellow , K&N filter and the cold air box) Now I have several questions..
Would an exhaust be considered a good mod for the 2nd mod ( Duh! I know its the 2nd mod people do usually, but just because everyone is doing it, is it the next Best mod?)
If so should I just settle for a Catback and aftermarket Y pipe by mid summer or get a full exhaust ( Headers, HF Cats, X or Y pipe) by mid autumn/fall?
If I get the full exhuast I want LTs, High flow cats, and a custom X pipe
#1 what is the best brand for either of these
#2 Is it worth doing a custom X pipe or should I just get a Y pipe
And lastly If I just get a regular Catback and a different Y pipe, would I have to get different Headers if I install the catback and Y pipe by the summer, but later on get headers. ( this is the meat and potatoes of the questions BTW) I mean I just want a small performance increase and better sound By summer ( hence the catback) But I am pretty certain if I get headers (LT) the Catback will be void and I will need a new catback or at least a new Y pipe. is this correct?
also before answering any of these. I am shooting for 405 - 425 HP or so
Can I achieve this with the Airlid, the full exhuast and a Mild Cam? or do I need more ( 425 to the crank, not the wheels FYI)
I hope I am making all this clear.
I am sort of asking a few questions, but mainly want to know If I get a Y pipe and Catback for now, if they can correspond with Lt headers later on. If not I may just wait and get the full exhuast later, but on the downside I want the catback by mid summer, and want to know if its such a big deal ( powerwise) to do the full exhaust or just a Catback and Y pipe.
Sorry for any confusion..
Would an exhaust be considered a good mod for the 2nd mod ( Duh! I know its the 2nd mod people do usually, but just because everyone is doing it, is it the next Best mod?)
If so should I just settle for a Catback and aftermarket Y pipe by mid summer or get a full exhaust ( Headers, HF Cats, X or Y pipe) by mid autumn/fall?
If I get the full exhuast I want LTs, High flow cats, and a custom X pipe
#1 what is the best brand for either of these
#2 Is it worth doing a custom X pipe or should I just get a Y pipe
And lastly If I just get a regular Catback and a different Y pipe, would I have to get different Headers if I install the catback and Y pipe by the summer, but later on get headers. ( this is the meat and potatoes of the questions BTW) I mean I just want a small performance increase and better sound By summer ( hence the catback) But I am pretty certain if I get headers (LT) the Catback will be void and I will need a new catback or at least a new Y pipe. is this correct?
also before answering any of these. I am shooting for 405 - 425 HP or so
Can I achieve this with the Airlid, the full exhuast and a Mild Cam? or do I need more ( 425 to the crank, not the wheels FYI)
I hope I am making all this clear.
I am sort of asking a few questions, but mainly want to know If I get a Y pipe and Catback for now, if they can correspond with Lt headers later on. If not I may just wait and get the full exhuast later, but on the downside I want the catback by mid summer, and want to know if its such a big deal ( powerwise) to do the full exhaust or just a Catback and Y pipe.
Sorry for any confusion..
Last edited by LSGunZ28; 05-11-2006 at 11:40 PM.
05-11-2006, 11:40 PM
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I would suggest a true dual exhaust system using the stock manifolds and with the catalytic convertors left in their original location, with both pipes going down the passangers side, over the axle (with mufflers located one on each side of the rear tub) and the pipes exiting out the rear in the stock location. No, it will not be real cheap but you will get a great sound that is not real loud and if you use straight through, noise cancelling mufflers, you will pick up about 5 percent in horsepower (usually that is about 15 horses). With an exhaust system designed this way the system gives a straight through exhaust flow without the all the noise (stock quiet inside the car). Outside a legal, sweet sound of that LS1 making POWER. (That is if you put your foot down lightly on the gas paddle around town).
05-11-2006, 11:45 PM
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Originally Posted by JEB Garner
I would suggest a true dual exhaust system using the stock manifolds and with the catalytic convertors left in their original location, with both pipes going down the passangers side, over the axle (with mufflers located one on each side of the rear tub) and the pipes exiting out the rear in the stock location. No, it will not be real cheap but you will get a great sound that is not real loud and if you use straight through, noise cancelling mufflers, you will pick up about 5 percent in horsepower (usually that is about 15 horses). With an exhaust system designed this way the system gives a straight through exhaust flow without the all the noise (stock quiet inside the car). Outside a legal, sweet sound of that LS1 making POWER. (That is if you put your foot down lightly on the gas paddle around town).
I cruise at about 2500 or less RPMs ( usually) So I dont think I woul dget pulled over with LTs or would I? I live in SO Cal BTW...
Anyways I was wanting more Power gains than 5%
With what you mentioned right now, can I reach the 400 HP mark with a mild street cam? or would I need a tune to reach that? If probably not, then I would rather get the true duals..
and what about my main question, with any of those exhausts could I later on install LTs? and a True Dual is that a X or H pipe or individual pipes?
05-11-2006, 11:54 PM
#4
Well you live in California, so you know that LTs are going to fail emissions (visual)
With that said, get the full exhaust, LT headers, if you have the $$$ get the stainless steel (Kooks are a board favorite) or if the budget is a bit lower, the coated Pacesetters are a popular brand, along with hooker, and a relatively new entrant, edelbrock
As for the y pipe, forget it until you get headers. The y pipe you get with the headers will fit together with the catback, as for what catback, hooker, or slp dual dual are 2 of the quieter (but good flowing) ones, or if you want loud, loudmouth 2, TSP rumbler, or magnaflow.
You can do it in stages if you want, catback first, then headers and Y, but if you want true duals, save your money and get the headers and duals, and don't bother with the catback.
You can run the new exhaust without a tune, and since you're going for a cam, you'd be better off waiting until you get that, then get tuned.
HP increase usually runs around 30 for a full exhaust
For what cam you want, start reading the internal section, they can tell you better than I what cam you want to get to obtain your goal
With that said, get the full exhaust, LT headers, if you have the $$$ get the stainless steel (Kooks are a board favorite) or if the budget is a bit lower, the coated Pacesetters are a popular brand, along with hooker, and a relatively new entrant, edelbrock
As for the y pipe, forget it until you get headers. The y pipe you get with the headers will fit together with the catback, as for what catback, hooker, or slp dual dual are 2 of the quieter (but good flowing) ones, or if you want loud, loudmouth 2, TSP rumbler, or magnaflow.
You can do it in stages if you want, catback first, then headers and Y, but if you want true duals, save your money and get the headers and duals, and don't bother with the catback.
You can run the new exhaust without a tune, and since you're going for a cam, you'd be better off waiting until you get that, then get tuned.
HP increase usually runs around 30 for a full exhaust
For what cam you want, start reading the internal section, they can tell you better than I what cam you want to get to obtain your goal
05-12-2006, 01:03 AM
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Originally Posted by 2K2WS6TA
Well you live in California, so you know that LTs are going to fail emissions (visual)
With that said, get the full exhaust, LT headers, if you have the $$$ get the stainless steel (Kooks are a board favorite) or if the budget is a bit lower, the coated Pacesetters are a popular brand, along with hooker, and a relatively new entrant, edelbrock
As for the y pipe, forget it until you get headers. The y pipe you get with the headers will fit together with the catback, as for what catback, hooker, or slp dual dual are 2 of the quieter (but good flowing) ones, or if you want loud, loudmouth 2, TSP rumbler, or magnaflow.
You can do it in stages if you want, catback first, then headers and Y, but if you want true duals, save your money and get the headers and duals, and don't bother with the catback.
You can run the new exhaust without a tune, and since you're going for a cam, you'd be better off waiting until you get that, then get tuned.
HP increase usually runs around 30 for a full exhaust
For what cam you want, start reading the internal section, they can tell you better than I what cam you want to get to obtain your goal
With that said, get the full exhaust, LT headers, if you have the $$$ get the stainless steel (Kooks are a board favorite) or if the budget is a bit lower, the coated Pacesetters are a popular brand, along with hooker, and a relatively new entrant, edelbrock
As for the y pipe, forget it until you get headers. The y pipe you get with the headers will fit together with the catback, as for what catback, hooker, or slp dual dual are 2 of the quieter (but good flowing) ones, or if you want loud, loudmouth 2, TSP rumbler, or magnaflow.
You can do it in stages if you want, catback first, then headers and Y, but if you want true duals, save your money and get the headers and duals, and don't bother with the catback.
You can run the new exhaust without a tune, and since you're going for a cam, you'd be better off waiting until you get that, then get tuned.
HP increase usually runs around 30 for a full exhaust
For what cam you want, start reading the internal section, they can tell you better than I what cam you want to get to obtain your goal
I think I will wait and get a full exhuast
Ok LT, High FLow cats, True Duals ( X or H) would cost roughly 2000+
about how much do you think. I dont want to go over 2 grand.
what about SLP LTs are they good?
I dunno I just may get a Catback and then sell it? I guess its gonna depend on my mood, because I also need to get a new clutch kit ASAP.
05-12-2006, 05:19 AM
#7
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First things first. Have a read of the the sticky - induction/exhaust mods posts 6 and 13 onwards. There's a link in my sig to it.
Now Duals can be good but it doesn't mean they are the best solution. Yes they sound nice but Y pipe setups hardly sound bad.
Exhausts are about flow and scavenging. Now a good Y pipe will scavenge in much the same manor as an X pipe does. So this just leaves flow.
A 3" Y setup is fine on a bolt on mild cammed car. Once you really start pushing the HP up it will become a restriction, but bear in mind there are many many cars producing well over 600rwhp and still using a 3" Y setup so even at that level it's not as restrictive as many believe.
A 2.5" dual system will out flow a 3" Y setup. But in most cases you will have to have it custom made, especially if you want it over the axle and exiting out the back. TSP offer a X pipe dual system but it dumps before the axle so it's not ideal for everyone.
Also if you actually drag race a lot you will want to get a body mounted torque arm. This have much greater affect on ET's than any exhaust setup could ever hope too. Now you can not fit a body mounted torque arm to the car with the TSP duals, you would need to have the exhaust custom made around the torqye arm, so you would need the torque arm on the car first.
I really like duals but on the Fbody they are IMO too many down sides to them. But each to their own.
Remember the exhaust is an entire system, a catback swap will probably only net you 5rwhp or so. Swapping the CATS out may yeild some more but it won't be massive amounts. The big power lies in the headers. Long Tubes are the answer and it's not because of flow, the stock headers don't flow great but they are good enough.
Good header design is about scavenging. Due to how scavenging works the primary lenghts of the headers determine where in the rpm they will scavenge. Shorty headers do not scavenge on an LS1 and would need to be operating at high rpms (try 10,000rpm) to really work. Mid lenght headers are slightly better but work best with high revving cammed cars. So Long tubes are the best bet and will show the best gains.
So having now established what works best you should in theory be able to design your exhuast.
Sadly not
As you are in CA you have tougher regualtions to pass. All your equipment needs to be CARB approved. The only way you could run long tube headers is illegally and you'll probably end up with a lot of greif over it, but the choice is yours.
To stick within the law you can not relocate the CATS this means the only headers you can run are CARB approved shorty headers. These as stated above don't flow much better than stock (on a n/a application) and are probably worth 3-5rwhp. You'll need some high flow cats and then what ever you decide for an exhaust.
However your long term goals will dictatewhat you should do from here on.
Living in CA really limits what you can do with your car and IMO making an n/a monster out of it is hard work. Even your cam choices will be limmited due to the fact that the interesting profile and high lift cams will fail emissions.
In that case if you plan on n/a I would keep the stock headers and get high flow cats and either a 3" Y pipe and catback or 2.5" duals. Shorty headers would not really be worth the cost or hassle. The addition of nitrous should allow some good performance especially if you add a cam and heads plus intake mods such as LS6 intake manifold and ported TB.
Personally I feel FI is the best bet for cars in CA. I beleive some of the Procharger setups are CARB approved (you'll need to check) and I know some of the turbo setups are looking at becoming CARB approved also.
With a supercharger shorty headers will work quie well. This would seem odd at first but the reason is with FI cars exhaust scavenging doesn't take place. It is purley about flow. And the increased ability of shorties on an FI applicatoin will be of great benefit over stock. So this would affect how you design you're exhaust.
Apart from this all you can do is research the why, what and how different things work and you should then be able to answer you're own questions. Because sadly there is no simple answer is you live in CA.
Now Duals can be good but it doesn't mean they are the best solution. Yes they sound nice but Y pipe setups hardly sound bad.
Exhausts are about flow and scavenging. Now a good Y pipe will scavenge in much the same manor as an X pipe does. So this just leaves flow.
A 3" Y setup is fine on a bolt on mild cammed car. Once you really start pushing the HP up it will become a restriction, but bear in mind there are many many cars producing well over 600rwhp and still using a 3" Y setup so even at that level it's not as restrictive as many believe.
A 2.5" dual system will out flow a 3" Y setup. But in most cases you will have to have it custom made, especially if you want it over the axle and exiting out the back. TSP offer a X pipe dual system but it dumps before the axle so it's not ideal for everyone.
Also if you actually drag race a lot you will want to get a body mounted torque arm. This have much greater affect on ET's than any exhaust setup could ever hope too. Now you can not fit a body mounted torque arm to the car with the TSP duals, you would need to have the exhaust custom made around the torqye arm, so you would need the torque arm on the car first.
I really like duals but on the Fbody they are IMO too many down sides to them. But each to their own.
Remember the exhaust is an entire system, a catback swap will probably only net you 5rwhp or so. Swapping the CATS out may yeild some more but it won't be massive amounts. The big power lies in the headers. Long Tubes are the answer and it's not because of flow, the stock headers don't flow great but they are good enough.
Good header design is about scavenging. Due to how scavenging works the primary lenghts of the headers determine where in the rpm they will scavenge. Shorty headers do not scavenge on an LS1 and would need to be operating at high rpms (try 10,000rpm) to really work. Mid lenght headers are slightly better but work best with high revving cammed cars. So Long tubes are the best bet and will show the best gains.
So having now established what works best you should in theory be able to design your exhuast.
Sadly not
As you are in CA you have tougher regualtions to pass. All your equipment needs to be CARB approved. The only way you could run long tube headers is illegally and you'll probably end up with a lot of greif over it, but the choice is yours.
To stick within the law you can not relocate the CATS this means the only headers you can run are CARB approved shorty headers. These as stated above don't flow much better than stock (on a n/a application) and are probably worth 3-5rwhp. You'll need some high flow cats and then what ever you decide for an exhaust.
However your long term goals will dictatewhat you should do from here on.
Living in CA really limits what you can do with your car and IMO making an n/a monster out of it is hard work. Even your cam choices will be limmited due to the fact that the interesting profile and high lift cams will fail emissions.
In that case if you plan on n/a I would keep the stock headers and get high flow cats and either a 3" Y pipe and catback or 2.5" duals. Shorty headers would not really be worth the cost or hassle. The addition of nitrous should allow some good performance especially if you add a cam and heads plus intake mods such as LS6 intake manifold and ported TB.
Personally I feel FI is the best bet for cars in CA. I beleive some of the Procharger setups are CARB approved (you'll need to check) and I know some of the turbo setups are looking at becoming CARB approved also.
With a supercharger shorty headers will work quie well. This would seem odd at first but the reason is with FI cars exhaust scavenging doesn't take place. It is purley about flow. And the increased ability of shorties on an FI applicatoin will be of great benefit over stock. So this would affect how you design you're exhaust.
Apart from this all you can do is research the why, what and how different things work and you should then be able to answer you're own questions. Because sadly there is no simple answer is you live in CA.
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05-13-2006, 05:14 AM
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WOw 300, that is a lot of useful info. I think Im gonna say Screw emissions and get the LTs and a full exhaust, but I just may get a catback for now and sell it later, and get the full exhaust. So only time will tell.
07-21-2006, 03:22 AM
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Well here is my update, I guess. I really changed my opinions on my exhaust. Today I just got my SLP loudmouth catback Installed and later on Im gonna get a ( unknown brand at the moment) Offroad Y pipe and Pacesetter LT headers..
originally I wanted to do the exhuast all at once, but I guess money limited my decision. and I dont think I want an X pipe anymore since I heard a LS1 Vette with the SLP loudmouth today and it sounded like a Boat.
originally I wanted to do the exhuast all at once, but I guess money limited my decision. and I dont think I want an X pipe anymore since I heard a LS1 Vette with the SLP loudmouth today and it sounded like a Boat.
