Throttle body question
08-02-2006, 09:05 PM
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Throttle body question It was brought to my attention by a friend who likes to read the bs on nasioc, that when porting a throttle body it is better to leave the inside rough, (80 grit) as opposed to polishing it. At first this did not make sense to me, but I guess it applies the same concept that a golf ball does. If a rough surface flows beter than a polished one people could stop wasting money and time on polishing something that can not even be seen. Can anyone explain this better?
Scott
Scott
08-03-2006, 05:11 AM
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Originally Posted by orangeapeel
I think that you will find most people do not leave them rough though. Those super polished ones seem to be a popular choice for a quick few rwhp.
08-03-2006, 05:31 AM
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The dimples in a golf ball are so you can put spin on the ball, if it was smooth and you wanted back spin or to curve in the air it wouldn't work.
Sorry I cant say much about the throttle body. You would assume the less turbulence possible the better the flow.
Below is more info on the golf ball. However dimples help it go thorugh the air further dosn't mean it will work well in anything else other than a sphere. I would vote Smoth TB, afterall its probably only a case of 0.5HP and having that feeling inside that you have a smooth TB makes you feel better.
The Dimples
Why, then, does a golf ball have dimples? The answer to this question can be found by looking at the aerodynamic drag on a sphere. There are two types of drag experienced by a sphere. The first is the obvious drag due to friction. This only accounts for a small part of the drag experienced by a ball. The majority of the drag comes from the separation of the flow behind the ball and is known as pressure drag due to separation. For laminar flow past a sphere, the flow separates very early as shown in Figure 1. However, for a turbulent flow, separation is delayed as can be seen in Figure 2. Notice the difference in the size of the separation region behind the spheres. The separation region in the turbulent case is much smaller than in the laminar case. The larger separation region of the laminar case implies a larger pressure drag on the sphere. This is why the professor experienced a longer drive with the marked ball. The surface roughness caused the flow to transition from laminar to turbulent. The turbulent flow has more energy than the laminar flow and thus, the flow stays attached longer.
Figure 1: Laminar Flow
Over a Sphere.
Figure 2: Turbulent Flow
Over a Sphere.
So, why dimples? Why not use another method to achieve the same affect? The critical Reynolds number, Recr, holds the answer to this question. As you recall, Recr is the Reynolds number at which the flow transitions from a laminar to a turbulent state. For a smooth sphere, Recr is much larger than the average Reynolds number experienced by a golf ball. For a sand roughened golf ball, the reduction in drag at Recr is greater than that of the dimpled golf ball. However, as the Reyn olds number continues to increase, the drag increases. The dimpled ball, on the other hand, has a lower Recr, and the drag is fairly constant for Reynolds numbers greater than Recr.
Therefore, the dimples cause Recr to decrease which implies that the flow becomes turbulent at a lower velocity than on a smooth sphere. This in turn causes the flow to remain attached longer on a dimpled golf ball which implies a reduction in drag. As the speed of the dimpled golf ball is increased, the drag doesn't change much. This is a good property in a sport like golf.
Although round dimples were accepted as the standard, a variety of other shapes were experimented with as well. Among these were squares, rectangles, and hexagons. The hexagons actually result in a lower drag than the round dimples. Perhaps in the future we will see golf ***** with hexagonal dimples.
How a Golf Ball Produces Lift
Lift is another aerodynamic force which affects the flight of a golf ball. This idea might sound a little odd, but given the proper spin a golf ball can produce lift. Originally, golfers thought that all spin was detrimental. However, in 1877, British scientist P.G. Tait learned that a ball, driven with a spin about a horizontal axis with the top of the ball coming toward the golfer produces a lifting force. This type of spin is know as a backspin.
The backspin increases the speed on the upper surface of the ball while decreasing the speed on the lower surface. From the Bernoulli principle, when the velocity increases the pressure decreases. Therefore, the pressure on the upper surface is less than the pressure on the lower surface of the ball. This pressure differential results in a finite lift being applied to the ball.
Sorry I cant say much about the throttle body. You would assume the less turbulence possible the better the flow.
Below is more info on the golf ball. However dimples help it go thorugh the air further dosn't mean it will work well in anything else other than a sphere. I would vote Smoth TB, afterall its probably only a case of 0.5HP and having that feeling inside that you have a smooth TB makes you feel better.
The Dimples
Why, then, does a golf ball have dimples? The answer to this question can be found by looking at the aerodynamic drag on a sphere. There are two types of drag experienced by a sphere. The first is the obvious drag due to friction. This only accounts for a small part of the drag experienced by a ball. The majority of the drag comes from the separation of the flow behind the ball and is known as pressure drag due to separation. For laminar flow past a sphere, the flow separates very early as shown in Figure 1. However, for a turbulent flow, separation is delayed as can be seen in Figure 2. Notice the difference in the size of the separation region behind the spheres. The separation region in the turbulent case is much smaller than in the laminar case. The larger separation region of the laminar case implies a larger pressure drag on the sphere. This is why the professor experienced a longer drive with the marked ball. The surface roughness caused the flow to transition from laminar to turbulent. The turbulent flow has more energy than the laminar flow and thus, the flow stays attached longer.
Figure 1: Laminar Flow
Over a Sphere.
Figure 2: Turbulent Flow
Over a Sphere.
So, why dimples? Why not use another method to achieve the same affect? The critical Reynolds number, Recr, holds the answer to this question. As you recall, Recr is the Reynolds number at which the flow transitions from a laminar to a turbulent state. For a smooth sphere, Recr is much larger than the average Reynolds number experienced by a golf ball. For a sand roughened golf ball, the reduction in drag at Recr is greater than that of the dimpled golf ball. However, as the Reyn olds number continues to increase, the drag increases. The dimpled ball, on the other hand, has a lower Recr, and the drag is fairly constant for Reynolds numbers greater than Recr.
Therefore, the dimples cause Recr to decrease which implies that the flow becomes turbulent at a lower velocity than on a smooth sphere. This in turn causes the flow to remain attached longer on a dimpled golf ball which implies a reduction in drag. As the speed of the dimpled golf ball is increased, the drag doesn't change much. This is a good property in a sport like golf.
Although round dimples were accepted as the standard, a variety of other shapes were experimented with as well. Among these were squares, rectangles, and hexagons. The hexagons actually result in a lower drag than the round dimples. Perhaps in the future we will see golf ***** with hexagonal dimples.
How a Golf Ball Produces Lift
Lift is another aerodynamic force which affects the flight of a golf ball. This idea might sound a little odd, but given the proper spin a golf ball can produce lift. Originally, golfers thought that all spin was detrimental. However, in 1877, British scientist P.G. Tait learned that a ball, driven with a spin about a horizontal axis with the top of the ball coming toward the golfer produces a lifting force. This type of spin is know as a backspin.
The backspin increases the speed on the upper surface of the ball while decreasing the speed on the lower surface. From the Bernoulli principle, when the velocity increases the pressure decreases. Therefore, the pressure on the upper surface is less than the pressure on the lower surface of the ball. This pressure differential results in a finite lift being applied to the ball.
Last edited by RedWS6 00; 08-03-2006 at 05:39 AM.
