Header dyno#'s and clearance?'s
11-06-2006, 12:33 AM
#1
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Header dyno#'s and clearance?'s Ok I am considering two header setups....(cheap) pacesetters and tsp catted y or (expensive) kooks longtubes and catted y.
I have read a lot of the header posts to get opinions and it helped me in deciding but still have some concerns...ok for one, most everyone that has pacesetters is happy and most that have kooks are happy as well. I understand the pro's and cons of both but the things that I have not seen addressed that concern me are
1. dyno numbers, does anyone have gain #'s for the LT's and y of one or both setups on a stock or mostly stock car? I would hope and bet that the kooks put down more but not sure if its worth the money.
2. clearance, the kooks are advertised to tuck in nice and tight but the jury seems to be out on the pacesetter/tsp y. My concern is that my car is lowered and I dont want to loose any more clearance so I need to go with a setup that will clear the UMI straight bar torque arm that I plan on getting!
Thanks for any feedback guys and gals
I have read a lot of the header posts to get opinions and it helped me in deciding but still have some concerns...ok for one, most everyone that has pacesetters is happy and most that have kooks are happy as well. I understand the pro's and cons of both but the things that I have not seen addressed that concern me are
1. dyno numbers, does anyone have gain #'s for the LT's and y of one or both setups on a stock or mostly stock car? I would hope and bet that the kooks put down more but not sure if its worth the money.
2. clearance, the kooks are advertised to tuck in nice and tight but the jury seems to be out on the pacesetter/tsp y. My concern is that my car is lowered and I dont want to loose any more clearance so I need to go with a setup that will clear the UMI straight bar torque arm that I plan on getting!
Thanks for any feedback guys and gals
11-06-2006, 01:24 AM
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if you have the money get the kooks. hands down. both fit excellent and im pretty sure both should put dowm about the same dyno #'s. QTP's with there HVMC should put down the best #'s. good luck
11-06-2006, 04:20 AM
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Ok well pretty much no lt will gaiin 3 or 4 rwhp more than the other. Maybe QTP with the HVMC (High Velocity Merge Collector) will gain a bit more than the others but again, even that's debatable.
What you are paying extra for is the quality of the steel. Pacesetters are coated headers and alot of people complain about rust setting in within a year. Kooks and QTP are stainless steel which will pretty much never rust. Kooks fits in really nice, and ive heard pacesetter does too. QTP has known to have some fitment issues but they can be fixed during the install w/o too much hassle.
As far as clearance goes, the headers themselves usually dont generate problems (except SLP LT's), its the y-pipe that causes problems. I would get a custom y-pipe with cats if u wanted to stick with a y-pipe setup. You will get the most clearance out of anything with a custom setup. You might want to consider tru duals dumped or over the axle if u want a bit more power also.
What you are paying extra for is the quality of the steel. Pacesetters are coated headers and alot of people complain about rust setting in within a year. Kooks and QTP are stainless steel which will pretty much never rust. Kooks fits in really nice, and ive heard pacesetter does too. QTP has known to have some fitment issues but they can be fixed during the install w/o too much hassle.
As far as clearance goes, the headers themselves usually dont generate problems (except SLP LT's), its the y-pipe that causes problems. I would get a custom y-pipe with cats if u wanted to stick with a y-pipe setup. You will get the most clearance out of anything with a custom setup. You might want to consider tru duals dumped or over the axle if u want a bit more power also.
11-06-2006, 05:26 AM
#4
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The price is in the material.
HP is relative to setup. Sure the QTP's have more potential to make more power, but it probably wouldn't be by much. But the rest of the setup (heads, valves, runners, exhaust, cam, intake) all affect the engine. So on both sets of headers could make more than the other depending on the other components used.
The Y pipe is a similar'ish story. The larger Flowmaster merge collector is very good, but it's BIG.
As for clearance, well the TSP should be fine as long as you fit it correctly. You'll want to look at adding poly engine AND tranny mounts from Thunder Racing. I'd also consider running the Mufflex Y pipe hanger also, this would be for either setup you go for.
As for the torque arm. Well I assume you mean a body mounted torque arm? You will need the correct one for LT headers. Look at UMI's website it explains it.
If you are having trouble with ground clearance then:
1. Your car is too low - Change the suspension and run a sensible ride height!!!!!
2. Stop using it for off roading and buy a Jeep instead.
HP is relative to setup. Sure the QTP's have more potential to make more power, but it probably wouldn't be by much. But the rest of the setup (heads, valves, runners, exhaust, cam, intake) all affect the engine. So on both sets of headers could make more than the other depending on the other components used.
The Y pipe is a similar'ish story. The larger Flowmaster merge collector is very good, but it's BIG.
As for clearance, well the TSP should be fine as long as you fit it correctly. You'll want to look at adding poly engine AND tranny mounts from Thunder Racing. I'd also consider running the Mufflex Y pipe hanger also, this would be for either setup you go for.
As for the torque arm. Well I assume you mean a body mounted torque arm? You will need the correct one for LT headers. Look at UMI's website it explains it.
If you are having trouble with ground clearance then:
1. Your car is too low - Change the suspension and run a sensible ride height!!!!!
2. Stop using it for off roading and buy a Jeep instead.
11-06-2006, 08:41 AM
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I have Kooks with a catted Y. I pulled 303/318 on a 325HP equiped 02 SS with a SLP OE lid and a Magnaflow muffler. With the addition of LT's, catted Y and a Corsa I pulled 329/340.
As far as ground clearance, I lost very little. The Y-pipe may be 1" - 1.5" lower than stock.
As far as ground clearance, I lost very little. The Y-pipe may be 1" - 1.5" lower than stock.
11-06-2006, 08:47 PM
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I got 336/346 RWHP/TQ w/ the SLP LT's... Clearance is.........bad.......... to put it nicley. Not bad w/ stock rideheight, but discusting when the car is lowered. ... Mostly the Y-pipe. Not the best Power gain for a $1200 kit for headers. Y, Cats, Install kit and good coating on the headers.
All I really had for power mods when I did the LT's is what I have now.
Plugs -NGK
Wires
Lid
Filter
P+P TB
Bellows
Polished MAF
Borla CB
SLP LT's + Y ........THat's it... I know I need more...
...
I got a lot of SUSP work done... in my defense...
All I really had for power mods when I did the LT's is what I have now.
Plugs -NGK
Wires
Lid
Filter
P+P TB
Bellows
Polished MAF
Borla CB
SLP LT's + Y ........THat's it... I know I need more...
...I got a lot of SUSP work done... in my defense...
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11-06-2006, 10:29 PM
#9
Staging Lane
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Thanks for the feedback everyone
I understand the affect other mods have! From my understanding it comes down to this in a nutshell.........any given mod will gain more on a setup when it is the biggest "restriction" than the same mod on a setup that has other parts that are a restriction.
example being.....getting a gain of 20 horse on a bone stock car doing headers vs. getting a gain of 35 on a head cam car doing the same headers.
As for the torque arm, yeah it is the body mount version I am going with. I know the straight mount version is designed for stock exhaust or the kooks setup, I am just trying to see I can go with that one for a ground clearance advantage and still do a pacesetter/tsp setup and have the best of both worlds!
So given this I guess I should have asked the question differently, where is the point if any that cheap header and expensive header will begin to differ? A head cam 400 horse car, 500 horse stroker car, power adder 700 horse car?
My car isn't really low, I only have about a 1.5 to 2 inch drop front and rear but I have the mindset of wanting my cake and eating it too. I don't think someone needs to pick one or the other...ride height vs. ground clearance in order to have big exhaust for power.
I think with some research and work I can have both
I understand the affect other mods have! From my understanding it comes down to this in a nutshell.........any given mod will gain more on a setup when it is the biggest "restriction" than the same mod on a setup that has other parts that are a restriction.
example being.....getting a gain of 20 horse on a bone stock car doing headers vs. getting a gain of 35 on a head cam car doing the same headers.
As for the torque arm, yeah it is the body mount version I am going with. I know the straight mount version is designed for stock exhaust or the kooks setup, I am just trying to see I can go with that one for a ground clearance advantage and still do a pacesetter/tsp setup and have the best of both worlds!
So given this I guess I should have asked the question differently, where is the point if any that cheap header and expensive header will begin to differ? A head cam 400 horse car, 500 horse stroker car, power adder 700 horse car?
My car isn't really low, I only have about a 1.5 to 2 inch drop front and rear but I have the mindset of wanting my cake and eating it too. I don't think someone needs to pick one or the other...ride height vs. ground clearance in order to have big exhaust for power.
I think with some research and work I can have both
11-06-2006, 10:35 PM
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Originally Posted by 02SS0384
I have Kooks with a catted Y. I pulled 303/318 on a 325HP equiped 02 SS with a SLP OE lid and a Magnaflow muffler. With the addition of LT's, catted Y and a Corsa I pulled 329/340.
As far as ground clearance, I lost very little. The Y-pipe may be 1" - 1.5" lower than stock.
As far as ground clearance, I lost very little. The Y-pipe may be 1" - 1.5" lower than stock.
11-07-2006, 03:37 AM
#11
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Originally Posted by kagato
So given this I guess I should have asked the question differently, where is the point if any that cheap header and expensive header will begin to differ? A head cam 400 horse car, 500 horse stroker car, power adder 700 horse car?
I'm not good enough to work out every single variable and then design the perfect header for that engine, very few are. So in that case you takes your pick and you be happy.
Lots and lots of people have had very good results with both sets of headers. Unless you are creating a race car where every single pony is important (this means of course so is weight, so you'll have no interior, no powersteering no air con and so on). It really won't matter at all.
There are 402ci motors with Prochargers running Pacesetters and making over 700rwhp no problem.
