Help! Is it wrong to refer to a C5R engine as an "LS1"
12-31-2007, 12:48 PM
#1
Help! Is it wrong to refer to a C5R engine as an "LS1" We're having a debate here at work. There's a story that says "Meanest LS1 Engine Ever". But its a C5R block and heads.. I don't feel that's an LS1. Other feel that since it's based on the LS1 that it's ok to refer to it that way.
So, what say the "experts" here on LS1tech??
So, what say the "experts" here on LS1tech??
12-31-2007, 01:09 PM
#4
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Wow. Good question. I'll start with I don't know, but will expound.
Since the original C5R engine was derived from an LS1, it could be considered an LS1 variant. I know the GMMG 2002 ZL1s could be had with an LS6 or the C5R engine, and, at the time, I wasn't called anything different. Now, with the new Z06 Corvettes, I believe a reasonable facimile of the engine is called the LS7. I have no clue if that designition is now being applied retroactively to the older C5R engines. But now I'm subscribed to this thread, and I'll bet we find out.
Since the original C5R engine was derived from an LS1, it could be considered an LS1 variant. I know the GMMG 2002 ZL1s could be had with an LS6 or the C5R engine, and, at the time, I wasn't called anything different. Now, with the new Z06 Corvettes, I believe a reasonable facimile of the engine is called the LS7. I have no clue if that designition is now being applied retroactively to the older C5R engines. But now I'm subscribed to this thread, and I'll bet we find out.
12-31-2007, 01:16 PM
#6
See, this is my argument.. it's BS to say "we have the fastest LS1 out there" and then find out it's a 427 C5r block. lol
It could be called the "fastest/meanest LS engine", but not an LS1.. an LS1 isn't a C5r and it's not an LS2 or LS7 either, it's an LS1.
Someones gotta keep an eye on these magazines.. lol
It could be called the "fastest/meanest LS engine", but not an LS1.. an LS1 isn't a C5r and it's not an LS2 or LS7 either, it's an LS1.
Someones gotta keep an eye on these magazines.. lol
12-31-2007, 01:18 PM
#7
Wow. Good question. I'll start with I don't know, but will expound.
Since the original C5R engine was derived from an LS1, it could be considered an LS1 variant. I know the GMMG 2002 ZL1s could be had with an LS6 or the C5R engine, and, at the time, I wasn't called anything different. Now, with the new Z06 Corvettes, I believe a reasonable facimile of the engine is called the LS7. I have no clue if that designition is now being applied retroactively to the older C5R engines. But now I'm subscribed to this thread, and I'll bet we find out.
Since the original C5R engine was derived from an LS1, it could be considered an LS1 variant. I know the GMMG 2002 ZL1s could be had with an LS6 or the C5R engine, and, at the time, I wasn't called anything different. Now, with the new Z06 Corvettes, I believe a reasonable facimile of the engine is called the LS7. I have no clue if that designition is now being applied retroactively to the older C5R engines. But now I'm subscribed to this thread, and I'll bet we find out.
I think I will change thier story to refer to it as an LS and not LS1 (since it isn't) lol
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12-31-2007, 01:20 PM
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See, this is my argument.. it's BS to say "we have the fastest LS1 out there" and then find out it's a 427 C5r block. lol
It could be called the "fastest/meanest LS engine", but not an LS1.. an LS1 isn't a C5r and it's not an LS2 or LS7 either, it's an LS1.
Someones gotta keep an eye on these magazines.. lol
It could be called the "fastest/meanest LS engine", but not an LS1.. an LS1 isn't a C5r and it's not an LS2 or LS7 either, it's an LS1.
Someones gotta keep an eye on these magazines.. lol
12-31-2007, 01:25 PM
#9
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Being a devil's advocate, since the engine was developed and raced before the other LS variants were out, perhaps calling it an LS1 at the time may have been appropriate. But now we have LS6s, LS2s, LS7s, LS3s it would be more appropriate to call it an LSX or "In the family of LS engines...".
Oh hell, maybe we should just call it a Gen 3 SBC engine. Or have we gotten to Gen 4 by now? It's hard for us old folks to keep up.
Oh hell, maybe we should just call it a Gen 3 SBC engine. Or have we gotten to Gen 4 by now? It's hard for us old folks to keep up.
12-31-2007, 01:50 PM
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Does it not also depend on who you are talking too? Talk to the most corvette ppl and the LS1` is the older 98-01 block. the LS6 is the new 02-04 block with better cooler chambers, better oiling galleys, plus stronger head bolt area.
But when you talk to the F-Body ppl they seem to call them all LS1 blocks.
Then you have the LS2 & LS7 plus the new LS3 blocks
The C5R block is not an LS block at all. Much different in too many ways. the C5R block and its brother the LS7.r block ( not available out side PME) are closer to the Warhawk blocks
But when you talk to the F-Body ppl they seem to call them all LS1 blocks.
Then you have the LS2 & LS7 plus the new LS3 blocks
The C5R block is not an LS block at all. Much different in too many ways. the C5R block and its brother the LS7.r block ( not available out side PME) are closer to the Warhawk blocks
12-31-2007, 02:14 PM
#11
I just redid the story to chang LS1 to LS engine..
They put a C5R into a 99 Camaro and said "it's the fastest LS1 powered car ever!!!"
Uh, no... it would need an LS1 engine to claim that title. lol.. maybe LS powered, but not LS1.
12-31-2007, 02:16 PM
#12
Being a devil's advocate, since the engine was developed and raced before the other LS variants were out, perhaps calling it an LS1 at the time may have been appropriate. But now we have LS6s, LS2s, LS7s, LS3s it would be more appropriate to call it an LSX or "In the family of LS engines...".
Oh hell, maybe we should just call it a Gen 3 SBC engine. Or have we gotten to Gen 4 by now? It's hard for us old folks to keep up.
Oh hell, maybe we should just call it a Gen 3 SBC engine. Or have we gotten to Gen 4 by now? It's hard for us old folks to keep up.
I don't mind refering to a C5r as an LS engine since it is based on that design and one could argue that if LS1 engines were never invented then the C5r wouldn't exist.
They are on Gen IV now..
12-31-2007, 02:56 PM
#14
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Does it not also depend on who you are talking too? Talk to the most corvette ppl and the LS1` is the older 98-01 block. the LS6 is the new 02-04 block with better cooler chambers, better oiling galleys, plus stronger head bolt area.
But when you talk to the F-Body ppl they seem to call them all LS1 blocks.
Then you have the LS2 & LS7 plus the new LS3 blocks
The C5R block is not an LS block at all. Much different in too many ways. the C5R block and its brother the LS7.r block ( not available out side PME) are closer to the Warhawk blocks
But when you talk to the F-Body ppl they seem to call them all LS1 blocks.
Then you have the LS2 & LS7 plus the new LS3 blocks
The C5R block is not an LS block at all. Much different in too many ways. the C5R block and its brother the LS7.r block ( not available out side PME) are closer to the Warhawk blocks
Steve's solution is the right one.
12-31-2007, 04:47 PM
#15
This holds true for stock bore/stroke engines. You can take a 427 lsx block and make it a 454 with some machining.
I think the proper way to coin this persons claim is to say "Fastest Gen III engine out there" if the C5R is in fact derived from the LS1. If the C5R block was derived from a LS2,3, or 7 then you would say it is the "Fastest Gen IV engine out there". This becomes vague when you see Wheel to Wheel Powertrain run 6's with their LSx based motor. Wouldn't that be the "meanest LS based engine"?
From W2W's website:
"Engine- 352 inch factory iron block LS1 built by Wheel to Wheel Powertrain. Twin turbo system- designed and built by Wheel to Wheel Powertrain. Combination built to test the limits and potential of the LS1 engine platform in drag racing. Current best ET 6.86 @ 205 mph. Presently the quickest and fastest LS1 powered vehicle in the world!"
I frankly don't care, I guess its up to each person.
Have fun arguing
Andy
I think the proper way to coin this persons claim is to say "Fastest Gen III engine out there" if the C5R is in fact derived from the LS1. If the C5R block was derived from a LS2,3, or 7 then you would say it is the "Fastest Gen IV engine out there". This becomes vague when you see Wheel to Wheel Powertrain run 6's with their LSx based motor. Wouldn't that be the "meanest LS based engine"?
From W2W's website:
"Engine- 352 inch factory iron block LS1 built by Wheel to Wheel Powertrain. Twin turbo system- designed and built by Wheel to Wheel Powertrain. Combination built to test the limits and potential of the LS1 engine platform in drag racing. Current best ET 6.86 @ 205 mph. Presently the quickest and fastest LS1 powered vehicle in the world!"
I frankly don't care, I guess its up to each person.
Have fun arguing
Andy
12-31-2007, 05:06 PM
#17
You have it right now Steve.
C5R is "LS" or even "LSX", but it is technically not an "LS1"
Seems like "LSX" works the best in most cases, since the "X" is just a blank that encompasses them all. But, now that the LSX GM block is out, it introduces more confusion. Therefore, lets call the group LS@
ha
C5R is "LS" or even "LSX", but it is technically not an "LS1"
Seems like "LSX" works the best in most cases, since the "X" is just a blank that encompasses them all. But, now that the LSX GM block is out, it introduces more confusion. Therefore, lets call the group LS@
ha
12-31-2007, 05:07 PM
#18
You have it right now Steve.
C5R is "LS" or even "LSX", but it is technically not an "LS1"
Seems like "LSX" works the best in most cases, since the "X" is just a blank that encompasses them all. But, now that the LSX GM block is out, it introduces more confusion. Therefore, lets call the group LS@
ha
C5R is "LS" or even "LSX", but it is technically not an "LS1"
Seems like "LSX" works the best in most cases, since the "X" is just a blank that encompasses them all. But, now that the LSX GM block is out, it introduces more confusion. Therefore, lets call the group LS@
ha
Andy
12-31-2007, 05:27 PM
#19
You have it right now Steve.
C5R is "LS" or even "LSX", but it is technically not an "LS1"
Seems like "LSX" works the best in most cases, since the "X" is just a blank that encompasses them all. But, now that the LSX GM block is out, it introduces more confusion. Therefore, lets call the group LS@
ha
C5R is "LS" or even "LSX", but it is technically not an "LS1"
Seems like "LSX" works the best in most cases, since the "X" is just a blank that encompasses them all. But, now that the LSX GM block is out, it introduces more confusion. Therefore, lets call the group LS@
ha
