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Help! Is it wrong to refer to a C5R engine as an "LS1"

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Old 12-31-2007, 12:48 PM   #1
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Default Help! Is it wrong to refer to a C5R engine as an "LS1"

We're having a debate here at work. There's a story that says "Meanest LS1 Engine Ever". But its a C5R block and heads.. I don't feel that's an LS1. Other feel that since it's based on the LS1 that it's ok to refer to it that way.

So, what say the "experts" here on LS1tech??
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Old 12-31-2007, 01:04 PM   #2
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I think when most people say ls1 they are refering to the ls motors in general. I would rather hear just ''LS'' though. Technically the c5r isn't a ls1, but we know the difference.
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Old 12-31-2007, 01:07 PM   #3
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to me if the block is not ls1 then the whole motor isnt.
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Old 12-31-2007, 01:09 PM   #4
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Wow. Good question. I'll start with I don't know, but will expound.

Since the original C5R engine was derived from an LS1, it could be considered an LS1 variant. I know the GMMG 2002 ZL1s could be had with an LS6 or the C5R engine, and, at the time, I wasn't called anything different. Now, with the new Z06 Corvettes, I believe a reasonable facimile of the engine is called the LS7. I have no clue if that designition is now being applied retroactively to the older C5R engines. But now I'm subscribed to this thread, and I'll bet we find out.
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Old 12-31-2007, 01:13 PM   #5
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From an overall view, I'd think the C5R has more in common with the LS7 than the LS1, but I guess I don't know enough about the history of the C5R to say anything more than that. To me, LS1 =/= C5R...no way, no how.
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Old 12-31-2007, 01:16 PM   #6
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Originally Posted by craz28 View Post
to me if the block is not ls1 then the whole motor isnt.
See, this is my argument.. it's BS to say "we have the fastest LS1 out there" and then find out it's a 427 C5r block. lol

It could be called the "fastest/meanest LS engine", but not an LS1.. an LS1 isn't a C5r and it's not an LS2 or LS7 either, it's an LS1.

Someones gotta keep an eye on these magazines.. lol
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Old 12-31-2007, 01:18 PM   #7
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Originally Posted by ArrestMeRedZ View Post
Wow. Good question. I'll start with I don't know, but will expound.

Since the original C5R engine was derived from an LS1, it could be considered an LS1 variant. I know the GMMG 2002 ZL1s could be had with an LS6 or the C5R engine, and, at the time, I wasn't called anything different. Now, with the new Z06 Corvettes, I believe a reasonable facimile of the engine is called the LS7. I have no clue if that designition is now being applied retroactively to the older C5R engines. But now I'm subscribed to this thread, and I'll bet we find out.
Well all the varients sprung from the same LS1 well.. but if I built an LS2 it wouldn't be right to say "look how much power I made from my LS1!!!"..

I think I will change thier story to refer to it as an LS and not LS1 (since it isn't) lol
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Old 12-31-2007, 01:20 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by Steve1969LS1 View Post
See, this is my argument.. it's BS to say "we have the fastest LS1 out there" and then find out it's a 427 C5r block. lol

It could be called the "fastest/meanest LS engine", but not an LS1.. an LS1 isn't a C5r and it's not an LS2 or LS7 either, it's an LS1.

Someones gotta keep an eye on these magazines.. lol
Agreed. Btw I saw you car "Bad Penny" in a magazine a while ago, just want to say amazing car
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Old 12-31-2007, 01:25 PM   #9
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Being a devil's advocate, since the engine was developed and raced before the other LS variants were out, perhaps calling it an LS1 at the time may have been appropriate. But now we have LS6s, LS2s, LS7s, LS3s it would be more appropriate to call it an LSX or "In the family of LS engines...".
Oh hell, maybe we should just call it a Gen 3 SBC engine. Or have we gotten to Gen 4 by now? It's hard for us old folks to keep up.
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Old 12-31-2007, 01:50 PM   #10
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Does it not also depend on who you are talking too? Talk to the most corvette ppl and the LS1` is the older 98-01 block. the LS6 is the new 02-04 block with better cooler chambers, better oiling galleys, plus stronger head bolt area.

But when you talk to the F-Body ppl they seem to call them all LS1 blocks.

Then you have the LS2 & LS7 plus the new LS3 blocks

The C5R block is not an LS block at all. Much different in too many ways. the C5R block and its brother the LS7.r block ( not available out side PME) are closer to the Warhawk blocks
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Old 12-31-2007, 02:14 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by craz28 View Post
Agreed. Btw I saw you car "Bad Penny" in a magazine a while ago, just want to say amazing car
Thanks! She's a fun car to drive.



I just redid the story to chang LS1 to LS engine..


They put a C5R into a 99 Camaro and said "it's the fastest LS1 powered car ever!!!"

Uh, no... it would need an LS1 engine to claim that title. lol.. maybe LS powered, but not LS1.
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Old 12-31-2007, 02:16 PM   #12
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Originally Posted by ArrestMeRedZ View Post
Being a devil's advocate, since the engine was developed and raced before the other LS variants were out, perhaps calling it an LS1 at the time may have been appropriate. But now we have LS6s, LS2s, LS7s, LS3s it would be more appropriate to call it an LSX or "In the family of LS engines...".
Oh hell, maybe we should just call it a Gen 3 SBC engine. Or have we gotten to Gen 4 by now? It's hard for us old folks to keep up.
Generally I say LSx to refer to all LS engines and LSX is the new big iron block.

I don't mind refering to a C5r as an LS engine since it is based on that design and one could argue that if LS1 engines were never invented then the C5r wouldn't exist.

They are on Gen IV now..
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Old 12-31-2007, 02:42 PM   #13
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How about this, LS1 means a 346 cu in engine, LS2 364 etc?
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Old 12-31-2007, 02:56 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AU N EGL View Post
Does it not also depend on who you are talking too? Talk to the most corvette ppl and the LS1` is the older 98-01 block. the LS6 is the new 02-04 block with better cooler chambers, better oiling galleys, plus stronger head bolt area.

But when you talk to the F-Body ppl they seem to call them all LS1 blocks.

Then you have the LS2 & LS7 plus the new LS3 blocks

The C5R block is not an LS block at all. Much different in too many ways. the C5R block and its brother the LS7.r block ( not available out side PME) are closer to the Warhawk blocks
Now it's getting confusing. Some 2001 and a lot of 2002 F-bodies got the LS6 block in their cars. Some/most/all of the non-Z06 'vettes in those years did also. They were still called LS1 engines by GM, since they didn't have the LS6 heads, cam, and high speed [external] balance treatment. So it's correct to call those LS6 blocks LS1 engines. In that case, calling the engine after the block wouldn't match GM's naming convention.

Steve's solution is the right one.
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Old 12-31-2007, 04:47 PM   #15
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How about this, LS1 means a 346 cu in engine, LS2 364 etc?
This holds true for stock bore/stroke engines. You can take a 427 lsx block and make it a 454 with some machining.

I think the proper way to coin this persons claim is to say "Fastest Gen III engine out there" if the C5R is in fact derived from the LS1. If the C5R block was derived from a LS2,3, or 7 then you would say it is the "Fastest Gen IV engine out there". This becomes vague when you see Wheel to Wheel Powertrain run 6's with their LSx based motor. Wouldn't that be the "meanest LS based engine"?

From W2W's website:
"Engine- 352 inch factory iron block LS1 built by Wheel to Wheel Powertrain. Twin turbo system- designed and built by Wheel to Wheel Powertrain. Combination built to test the limits and potential of the LS1 engine platform in drag racing. Current best ET 6.86 @ 205 mph. Presently the quickest and fastest LS1 powered vehicle in the world!"

I frankly don't care, I guess its up to each person.

Have fun arguing
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Old 12-31-2007, 05:02 PM   #16
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To be fair this was billed as "The Meanest NATURALLY ASPIRATED LS engine.."

Something like 950hp.. :shrug:

Anyways C5r /= LS1
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Old 12-31-2007, 05:06 PM   #17
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You have it right now Steve.

C5R is "LS" or even "LSX", but it is technically not an "LS1"

Seems like "LSX" works the best in most cases, since the "X" is just a blank that encompasses them all. But, now that the LSX GM block is out, it introduces more confusion. Therefore, lets call the group LS@

ha
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Old 12-31-2007, 05:07 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve1969LS1 View Post
To be fair this was billed as "The Meanest NATURALLY ASPIRATED LS engine.."

Something like 950hp.. :shrug:

Anyways C5r /= LS1
Ahhhhh missed the NA part.

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You have it right now Steve.

C5R is "LS" or even "LSX", but it is technically not an "LS1"

Seems like "LSX" works the best in most cases, since the "X" is just a blank that encompasses them all. But, now that the LSX GM block is out, it introduces more confusion. Therefore, lets call the group LS@

ha
Let's call a C5R an LSR??? hahaha

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Old 12-31-2007, 05:27 PM   #19
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You have it right now Steve.

C5R is "LS" or even "LSX", but it is technically not an "LS1"

Seems like "LSX" works the best in most cases, since the "X" is just a blank that encompasses them all. But, now that the LSX GM block is out, it introduces more confusion. Therefore, lets call the group LS@

ha
That's why I use LSx for LS1, LS2, etc and LSX for the new block.. at least it helps some of the confusion.
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Old 01-01-2008, 01:32 AM   #20
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yeah...C5R =/= LS1...and whoever said that the ZL1 car came with an LS6? Who got ripped off and paid $125K for an LS6 car..thought they were all 650HP
C5R's...
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Old 01-01-2008, 01:32 AM
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