blk00ss

iTrader: (66)

So the guy I am having rebuild my motor, is also checking my heads while they are off the car. I wanted him to check the valve springs to see if they are ok, and also to check valves and what not. Well they inform me that the valve springs I have on there wont handle my cam(254/257 .621/.621). I bought the heads used(patriot stage III's), but was informed they had the patriot dual valve springs. Well the check them and say they are coil binding at 1.09, and the closed pressure is only 300, and like 70 when open. he also stated they are installed at 1.770. I talked to patriot and they said their springs dont bind till 1.300? and come from them installed at 1.80.

He is trying to tell me that the springs I have now wont handle the lift of my cam. He is trying to talk me into buying the comp 26921's. But that is a $400 set of springs! When I can get a new set of PP's for $140 shipped! I jsut dont understand why a set of PP's or PRC's wont handle my cam?

Does anyone have any insight on this promblem? Also will the titanium retainers I have now work on the 921's? Thanks....

Full-Force

iTrader: (11)

Well they are rated at .650 lift so I think your ok there. They do have an upgrade spring called Gold Extreme I think that will handle even more for just a small increase in price.

Patriots products are very good. I use and recommend their springs to everyone that brings a car to me for a cam install. I also recommend their heads as well. Come to think of it I have sent them alot of business.

OUTLAWZ RACING

iTrader: (9)

To easy have Gunnar at Patriot spec you some springs or have them set your heads up. I belive that will save you some heart ache in the long run. And besides the heads are their product the can best set them up IMHO.

2000PewterZ28

Simple math, 1.770 - 1.300 = .470. If the guy a Patriot told you that he must be confused, dumb or both. The PRC spring will handle your camshaft. They will not bind until 1.08. Using a 1.800 installed height - 1.08 + .06 safety net = .660 lift.

blk00ss

iTrader: (66)

I'm thinking that since I bought the heads used maybe they arent the original valve springs that come with the heads. Should I just get another set of PP's and see if they will work?

I just dont understand why those springs would measure out like that, but I sat there and watched him do the measurements. This shouldnt be this damn difficult.

Hotrod406

iTrader: (6)

My Patriot Extremes installed at 1.750 so I'm not surprised at your installed height. If they are only 70 lbs on the seat they're cooked and you need new ones. The Extremes will probably work but I'd call Patriot to make sure.

mike#9

iTrader: (3)

You should be ok based on the reasons previously brought up. On another note....but similar.....dose comp still make the 977's?

blk00ss

iTrader: (66)

Not sure on the 977's. Does anyone have any specs on the Patriot Duals and maybe PRC's duals? I want to know how they compare to the 921's.

PREDATOR-Z

https://ls1tech.com/forums/generation-iii-internal-engine/327734-cam-guide.html

All that info in this thread (just scroll down a bit)

blk00ss

iTrader: (66)

wow there sure is alot of information in that thread. Definately a good read. But still kind of confused. Like I said, my engine builder said that the only valve spring he can find that he thinks will work Is the 921's. But if they will work why won't the PRC's or PP's work?

racer7088

The Patriot Xtreme duals are around 150@1.800 and 410@1.200 I think although I can't get to my info from home. You can bind them yourself but they actually bind lower than what they say if you check them like around 1.060 or maybe slightly lower from the ones we have used.

If you set the Xtremes up for .620 lift and run them .070 from coil bind for instance you would be at 1.060 + .070 + .620 = 1.750 for installed height and you'd be around 150-160 on the seat and about 400 psi open which should work fine.

willyfastz

The PP springs are probably toasted. They're really not that great of a spring and it sounds like they are losing their strenght. Sounds like the guy doing your heads is giving you good info, but I would go with Pac Racing springs over the Comp 921's. This would be my spring of choice, http://www.pacracing.com/Street_Stri...Set_of_16.html . You'll have a lot better performing set up with those than with the heavy dual springs.

Jon@Texas-Speed

iTrader: (18)

A PRC Platinum springkit will be more than sufficent for the camshaft you are running. We have run them on cams ranging from high .500" lift to .650"+ while turning engies 7400+ RPM without any issues. A perfect example is our heads/cam record car at the LSx Shootout had the PRC Duals with an MS4 camshaft. The springs showed ZERO signs of valve float on the engine dyno before the engine was put into the car. Let me know if you have any questions and I can make sure we get you fixed up with everything to meet your needs.

Thanks!
Jon

PowerShift408

iTrader: (44)

Winner winner right there. Jon will take care of you. Guess which springs are in my car...

CW 99 Z

I have never been a fan of the cheap springs but thats besides the point here. If you have the heads at a machine shop and they told you the springs arent going to cut it with the mega cam you have then you need to listen to them. They sound like they have checked things properly and are fairly competant. If you dont trust them take it else where. If you arent doing the inspection on the heads either you dont have the know how or you dont have the tools. Listen to the machine shop. Get good springs. Its going to cost you alot less than dropping a valve will

blk00ss

iTrader: (66)

I am listening to them. But they are trying to tell me that the only springs that are going to work is a set of $400 springs, I just can't buy it. The only thing they are going by is a comp cams valve spring chart hanging up in their shop. I really appreciate the great help guys. I'm going to go with either the pp's or Orc's.

CW 99 Z

I'm sure on paper the cheap springs will "work". I just cant buy that your motor wouldnt be worth another $200 to you. Why chance it? And Im sure the shop recomends the comp springs because thats what they have luck with but there are other options in quality springs out there. PAC is what I recomend. Doesnt it seem odd that a dual spring kit with titanium retainers, locks, seats and seals cost the same as just a set of Beehive springs from one of the premier manufacturers?

blk00ss

iTrader: (66)

Well the shop just called me, and come to find out that their measuring device actually had a shim in it when it shouldnt of. So they took the shim out and went back and checked them again, and the springs WILL work after all....so I was right all along. But thanks again everyone for all of your help, I have actually leard a ton by running into this problem. Even tho it ended up not being a problem after all!

TVWilkes

The PRC spring is cheaper than PAC, but it isn't a less quality product. The market price was set by Patriot when the gold spring came out. Just because they sell cheaper doesn't mean its less quality.

blk00ss

iTrader: (66)

^^I agree whole heartedly! I dont understand why some people get caught up in the whole genre of, if it's more expensive it must be better.