Cam Help... I know beaten to death.
03-23-2009, 03:00 AM
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Cam Help... I know beaten to death. I'll be purchasing a cam in the coming weeks, and I'd really like a pro's opinion on the subject. So if you know nothing about lift, duration, and lsa's please don't respond.
Okay here's what I have. Right now it is a bone stock down to a factory air filter 01 A4 T/A 3680lbs 100K 3.23's out back. I ran at the track last night. Thunder Valley located south of OKC. She ran a 13.19@105 2.0 60'. It was roughly 65 degrees outside unsure of humidity, but i'm betting it was really low. Needless to say I was impressed with the time due to the fact I had accidentally used 87 octane in her and she was singing like a diesel lol.
What I'm wanting is a cam that brings in great torque. I'm not worried about peak hp numbers. torque gets the job done. a choppy idle doesn't bother me at all. I do dd her so I need it do be a drivable setup though.
I'm planning on picking up a 2800 to 3000 stall converter soon as well.
I've been looking at a few TR's and I may be leaning towards the CHEATr or Trak cams. What do you guys that know whats going on think I should consider?
Okay here's what I have. Right now it is a bone stock down to a factory air filter 01 A4 T/A 3680lbs 100K 3.23's out back. I ran at the track last night. Thunder Valley located south of OKC. She ran a 13.19@105 2.0 60'. It was roughly 65 degrees outside unsure of humidity, but i'm betting it was really low. Needless to say I was impressed with the time due to the fact I had accidentally used 87 octane in her and she was singing like a diesel lol.
What I'm wanting is a cam that brings in great torque. I'm not worried about peak hp numbers. torque gets the job done. a choppy idle doesn't bother me at all. I do dd her so I need it do be a drivable setup though.
I'm planning on picking up a 2800 to 3000 stall converter soon as well.
I've been looking at a few TR's and I may be leaning towards the CHEATr or Trak cams. What do you guys that know whats going on think I should consider?
03-23-2009, 06:43 AM
#2
http://speed-eng.com/store/comp-lsr-...a-p-10242.html
The next size up is 223/231, my brother went with that one. It would also work nicely.
http://speed-eng.com/store/comp-lsr-...a-p-10243.html
03-23-2009, 09:19 AM
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Those LSR's look very tempting. I can't find any dyno results or testimonials on them though.
edit***
Now that I read a little more on them, I think they are intended for engines with aftermarket heads/intake.
edit***
Now that I read a little more on them, I think they are intended for engines with aftermarket heads/intake.
Last edited by chrisdacarnut; 03-23-2009 at 09:25 AM.
03-23-2009, 12:34 PM
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There's a G5X1 on the corvette forum, nice DD cam
http://forums.corvetteforum.com/c5-p...00-dallas.html
http://forums.corvetteforum.com/c5-p...00-dallas.html
03-23-2009, 05:01 PM
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Also look at the TSP 224R and 228R, I'm doing basically the samething right now except I'm gonna go ahead and go through the bottom end too. I'm not building a race car, just a fun to drive car. Also, I have a 3.73 and the guy at yank suggested a SS4000.
03-23-2009, 05:18 PM
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I'll be purchasing a cam in the coming weeks, and I'd really like a pro's opinion on the subject. So if you know nothing about lift, duration, and lsa's please don't respond.
Okay here's what I have. Right now it is a bone stock down to a factory air filter 01 A4 T/A 3680lbs 100K 3.23's out back. I ran at the track last night. Thunder Valley located south of OKC. She ran a 13.19@105 2.0 60'. It was roughly 65 degrees outside unsure of humidity, but i'm betting it was really low. Needless to say I was impressed with the time due to the fact I had accidentally used 87 octane in her and she was singing like a diesel lol.
What I'm wanting is a cam that brings in great torque. I'm not worried about peak hp numbers. torque gets the job done. a choppy idle doesn't bother me at all. I do dd her so I need it do be a drivable setup though.
I'm planning on picking up a 2800 to 3000 stall converter soon as well.
I've been looking at a few TR's and I may be leaning towards the CHEATr or Trak cams. What do you guys that know whats going on think I should consider?
Okay here's what I have. Right now it is a bone stock down to a factory air filter 01 A4 T/A 3680lbs 100K 3.23's out back. I ran at the track last night. Thunder Valley located south of OKC. She ran a 13.19@105 2.0 60'. It was roughly 65 degrees outside unsure of humidity, but i'm betting it was really low. Needless to say I was impressed with the time due to the fact I had accidentally used 87 octane in her and she was singing like a diesel lol.
What I'm wanting is a cam that brings in great torque. I'm not worried about peak hp numbers. torque gets the job done. a choppy idle doesn't bother me at all. I do dd her so I need it do be a drivable setup though.
I'm planning on picking up a 2800 to 3000 stall converter soon as well.
I've been looking at a few TR's and I may be leaning towards the CHEATr or Trak cams. What do you guys that know whats going on think I should consider?
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03-23-2009, 10:13 PM
#8
Are you planning on doing headers and atleast the LS6 intake? These new lobes are pretty agressive and with 100k miles you should probably install a new set of lifters. The head gaskets, lifters, head bolts, pulley bolt, timing cover gasket, oil pump o-ring, water pump gaskets (2) and crank seal is around $300. It would also be a great idea to put in a new oil pump ($120), timing set ($100), and you will need new pushrods, springs, retainers and valve seals around $400.
Let us know on what supporting mods you will be doing so we can help you out.
Let us know on what supporting mods you will be doing so we can help you out.
03-23-2009, 10:24 PM
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Are you planning on doing headers and atleast the LS6 intake? These new lobes are pretty agressive and with 100k miles you should probably install a new set of lifters. The head gaskets, lifters, head bolts, pulley bolt, timing cover gasket, oil pump o-ring, water pump gaskets (2) and crank seal is around $300. It would also be a great idea to put in a new oil pump ($120), timing set ($100), and you will need new pushrods, springs, retainers and valve seals around $400.
Let us know on what supporting mods you will be doing so we can help you out.
Let us know on what supporting mods you will be doing so we can help you out.
03-23-2009, 10:35 PM
#10
What I'm wanting is a cam that brings in great torque. I'm not worried about peak hp numbers. torque gets the job done. a choppy idle doesn't bother me at all. I do dd her so I need it do be a drivable setup though.
I'm planning on picking up a 2800 to 3000 stall converter soon as well.
I've been looking at a few TR's and I may be leaning towards the CHEATr or Trak cams. What do you guys that know whats going on think I should consider?
I'm planning on picking up a 2800 to 3000 stall converter soon as well.
I've been looking at a few TR's and I may be leaning towards the CHEATr or Trak cams. What do you guys that know whats going on think I should consider?
"TRak" - 231/234 .640/.590 112 LSA 2400-6800 RPM Power Band. Excellent mid-range & high RPM power.
Two very different choices, and honestly neither one is really a "torque cam". You should look at some custom grinds, on a tighter LSA with an early IVC to get what you are after. You don't have to go bigger than 224, and are probably better off staying around 220 degrees if you can. Don't be scared to go a 110 LSA, as you won't have much overlap at these lower durations.
Choose wisely, and you won't need too much converter, which will really drop your mileage.
Also, the poster above is right, you'll need some supporting mods, and a few maintenance items as well.
03-23-2009, 10:36 PM
#11
All large cams are made for aftermarket heads and cam. Keep the cam conservative and youll be happy....There are dyno grpahs floating around already. Search LSL and LSR.
03-23-2009, 10:36 PM
#12
You have to take the oil pump off to replace your timing set, people have reported oil pump failures. Since its the life blood of your engine its good insurance to replace it while you are in there. You can find some good deals on LS6 oil pumps. The stock rockers are actually very good, I would not hesitate to reuse those. There is a guy on here (Yank) who I bought my adjustable timing set through and it uses the LS2 chain (much stronger) for $82 shipped.
Since this is a DD I would not worry so much about the latest and greatest cam lobe profiles, most of the new stuff is so agressive and causes more problems than its worth. I think something around a 224 duration and a 112 LSA would be great with a 3000 rpm stall. Its all up to you and what you want though. How often would you like to change valve springs (10k miles or 20-30k miles?) I think there are a lot of great tried and proven combos out there.
03-23-2009, 11:31 PM
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Oh sorry I thought you were refering to the 2000 Camaro in your sig
You have to take the oil pump off to replace your timing set, people have reported oil pump failures. Since its the life blood of your engine its good insurance to replace it while you are in there. You can find some good deals on LS6 oil pumps. The stock rockers are actually very good, I would not hesitate to reuse those. There is a guy on here (Yank) who I bought my adjustable timing set through and it uses the LS2 chain (much stronger) for $82 shipped.
Since this is a DD I would not worry so much about the latest and greatest cam lobe profiles, most of the new stuff is so agressive and causes more problems than its worth. I think something around a 224 duration and a 112 LSA would be great with a 3000 rpm stall. Its all up to you and what you want though. How often would you like to change valve springs (10k miles or 20-30k miles?) I think there are a lot of great tried and proven combos out there.
You have to take the oil pump off to replace your timing set, people have reported oil pump failures. Since its the life blood of your engine its good insurance to replace it while you are in there. You can find some good deals on LS6 oil pumps. The stock rockers are actually very good, I would not hesitate to reuse those. There is a guy on here (Yank) who I bought my adjustable timing set through and it uses the LS2 chain (much stronger) for $82 shipped.
Since this is a DD I would not worry so much about the latest and greatest cam lobe profiles, most of the new stuff is so agressive and causes more problems than its worth. I think something around a 224 duration and a 112 LSA would be great with a 3000 rpm stall. Its all up to you and what you want though. How often would you like to change valve springs (10k miles or 20-30k miles?) I think there are a lot of great tried and proven combos out there.
03-24-2009, 02:15 PM
#15
Maybe you've already seen this, but if not....
Torque coming out of my EARS! (cam change)
224/228 .637/.639 110LSA cam dyno results
Torque coming out of my EARS! (cam change)
Since I liked the street manners of the 114LSA cam, but I wanted lots more torque, I asked Thunder Racing to grind me up a Super Torquey cam that would have excellent street manners. Here's what they came up with:
224/228 .637/.639 110LSA (+0).
I'm absolutely in love with this cam. It feels like I picked up 50 lb ft of torque in the 2000-4000rpm range over the 234/238 114LSA cam.
Here's why: My dynamic compression has risen from 8.34:1 to 8:73:1! We even saw a huge increase in cranking compression. The 234/238 114LSA cam had 200psi and the new Torque cam has 245psi! Holy smokes!! No wonder my throttle response is instantaneous.
This cam proves that you can have a 110LSA cam and still have excellent street manners
224/228 .637/.639 110LSA (+0).
I'm absolutely in love with this cam. It feels like I picked up 50 lb ft of torque in the 2000-4000rpm range over the 234/238 114LSA cam.
Here's why: My dynamic compression has risen from 8.34:1 to 8:73:1! We even saw a huge increase in cranking compression. The 234/238 114LSA cam had 200psi and the new Torque cam has 245psi! Holy smokes!! No wonder my throttle response is instantaneous.
This cam proves that you can have a 110LSA cam and still have excellent street manners
Originally Posted by PREDATOR-Z
How would the XE-R lobes compare to the LSK with a cam of same specs. What would be the effect accross the rpms.?
In short, if you had a XE-R cam with same specs, how would it compare in the power range.??
In short, if you had a XE-R cam with same specs, how would it compare in the power range.??
Originally Posted by Patrick G
An XE-R cam of the same duration at .050" would be down on power about 10 rwhp and would peak about 100 rpm lower in rpm. The reason why is more curtain area with the LSK lobes and more duration at .200".
A 224/228 cam with XE-R lobes has 146/149 duration at .200" (compared to 150/153). The XE-R has .581/.588 lift as opposed to .637/.639. For an XE-R to make comparable power, it would need to be around 230/234 to make the same power.
A 224/228 cam with XE-R lobes has 146/149 duration at .200" (compared to 150/153). The XE-R has .581/.588 lift as opposed to .637/.639. For an XE-R to make comparable power, it would need to be around 230/234 to make the same power.
Originally Posted by ninobrn99
since chris is asking, how would you make it work on a stock head (ls6) motor? full bolton? id like to get an idea of how you'd work it. emissions arent too much of a concern as lift...615 is the max id like to run.
The cam would work just fine on stock heads. All that is needed are good springs shimmed to within .050" of coil bind, light retainers and 7.450" chrome moly pushrods. Even though stock heads don't flow much more over .600 lift, they don't back up either.
The beauty of the LSK lobes is cramming more duration at .200" lift (which is .340" at the valve). You'd have to admit that more duration at .200" (with the same duration at .050") will make you more power. Add the extra lift and it's a bonus. And I'm not sure where you pulled the .615 max lift number from, but you have to understand, going from .615" lift to .633" is not a huge step. Once you have the correct spring setup, it's all academic.
The beauty of the LSK lobes is cramming more duration at .200" lift (which is .340" at the valve). You'd have to admit that more duration at .200" (with the same duration at .050") will make you more power. Add the extra lift and it's a bonus. And I'm not sure where you pulled the .615 max lift number from, but you have to understand, going from .615" lift to .633" is not a huge step. Once you have the correct spring setup, it's all academic.
03-24-2009, 05:23 PM
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That's a pretty healthy cam, but would it be feasible to use on a bolt on only car? Would the pistons need to be fly cut with that much lift? or does the smaller duration void the need for that?
03-24-2009, 07:17 PM
#17
Remember, they are talking about LSK lobes. There are made to tear up valvetrains that arent carefully thought out. They are probably the best lobes possible, they are so aggresive that Comp doesnt even advertise them. But they require a much better valvetrain setup or you could have valvetrain control issues.
Comps three most aggressive lobes.... LSK > LSL(LSR Cams) > XER
Comps three most aggressive lobes.... LSK > LSL(LSR Cams) > XER
03-24-2009, 09:32 PM
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I see. I really appreciate all the help I'm getting from you guys. Hopefully with enough information I'll able to pick the perfect cam.
What I'd really like to do is get some 11.9x's out of the car with bolt ons and cam only. Without having to use a ridiculous stall. I wont go any bigger than a 3000 stall. And I will not use nitrous.
What I'd really like to do is get some 11.9x's out of the car with bolt ons and cam only. Without having to use a ridiculous stall. I wont go any bigger than a 3000 stall. And I will not use nitrous.
03-24-2009, 09:58 PM
#19
Remember, they are talking about LSK lobes. There are made to tear up valvetrains that arent carefully thought out. They are probably the best lobes possible, they are so aggresive that Comp doesnt even advertise them. But they require a much better valvetrain setup or you could have valvetrain control issues.
Comps three most aggressive lobes.... LSK > LSL(LSR Cams) > XER
Comps three most aggressive lobes.... LSK > LSL(LSR Cams) > XER