Road to 500 Rwhp
#1
Staging Lane
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Road to 500 Rwhp
I'm trying to get 500 hp, on the all stock 2002 ws6, was wandering what my best options are. Also need to make sure it sticks to the ground, its a DD just want some attidude. H/C for sure, and was wandering what a great intake setup would be, and should I upgrade my tranny? or rear end. thanks guys
#2
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500rwhp is no easy task.
The general consensus is that you will need some very good flowing heads (AFR 205, or TFS 215), a camshaft which supports the heads, and a FAST 90 or 92 intake - preferably ported. Along with this, you will need a very good flowing exhaust, and a fantastic tune.
Clearly, you will need supporting mods as well.
It's no easy task, but it is possible.
The general consensus is that you will need some very good flowing heads (AFR 205, or TFS 215), a camshaft which supports the heads, and a FAST 90 or 92 intake - preferably ported. Along with this, you will need a very good flowing exhaust, and a fantastic tune.
Clearly, you will need supporting mods as well.
It's no easy task, but it is possible.
#4
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D1SC and a couple of boltons with a nice tune and bigger injectors. Maybe a fuel pump upgrade. Don't forget a stronger clutch and built rear. Oh yeah, Rear Tires upgrade, you want to be able to use the new power.
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Ok the N/a answer is
TFS 215's milled for compression 11.5 to 1 or a bit higher
Ported FAST 92mm / 92mm tb from Vengeance Racing of course.
85mm MAF
ARH Headers 1 7/8
Healthy cam 240/242 600 ish
VaraRam CAI
36# inj's and every bolton (ewp/asp ud pully)
fuel pump upgrade possibly. That should do it, or at least make it close.
TFS 215's milled for compression 11.5 to 1 or a bit higher
Ported FAST 92mm / 92mm tb from Vengeance Racing of course.
85mm MAF
ARH Headers 1 7/8
Healthy cam 240/242 600 ish
VaraRam CAI
36# inj's and every bolton (ewp/asp ud pully)
fuel pump upgrade possibly. That should do it, or at least make it close.
#7
CARTEK Racing
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My recipe is as fallows
Stock 2001 LS1 bottom end
CARTEK 4X ported LS6 heads
CARTEK 4X cam
QTP 1-3/4" headers
TSP True Duals
Port matched Fast 90 / Ported Fast 90 TB
42 #/hr injectors
Elec Waster Pump
ASP underdrive pully
TSP 85mm Lid & K&N
Tuned by CARTEK
put down 507RWHP through 4.56 gears in a 12-bolt... with a 10-bolt and 3.42 is would be quite a bit more.
Stock 2001 LS1 bottom end
CARTEK 4X ported LS6 heads
CARTEK 4X cam
QTP 1-3/4" headers
TSP True Duals
Port matched Fast 90 / Ported Fast 90 TB
42 #/hr injectors
Elec Waster Pump
ASP underdrive pully
TSP 85mm Lid & K&N
Tuned by CARTEK
put down 507RWHP through 4.56 gears in a 12-bolt... with a 10-bolt and 3.42 is would be quite a bit more.
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#8
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Killer setup !!
My recipe is as fallows
Stock 2001 LS1 bottom end
CARTEK 4X ported LS6 heads
CARTEK 4X cam
QTP 1-3/4" headers
TSP True Duals
Port matched Fast 90 / Ported Fast 90 TB
42 #/hr injectors
Elec Waster Pump
ASP underdrive pully
TSP 85mm Lid & K&N
Tuned by CARTEK
put down 507RWHP through 4.56 gears in a 12-bolt... with a 10-bolt and 3.42 is would be quite a bit more.
Stock 2001 LS1 bottom end
CARTEK 4X ported LS6 heads
CARTEK 4X cam
QTP 1-3/4" headers
TSP True Duals
Port matched Fast 90 / Ported Fast 90 TB
42 #/hr injectors
Elec Waster Pump
ASP underdrive pully
TSP 85mm Lid & K&N
Tuned by CARTEK
put down 507RWHP through 4.56 gears in a 12-bolt... with a 10-bolt and 3.42 is would be quite a bit more.
I've read a lot of good things about Cartek. What size port are the heads ?? How about bottom end torque ?? Compression ratio? You didn't mention gasket thickness, or pistons in/out of the hole etc or else I'd have figured it out myself.
Cam specs ??
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there are a few posts and vid's on youtube that slam cartek....just type in their name on youtube.... one person put a video out that documented everything....
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#12
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https://ls1tech.com/forums/multimedi...m-video-2.html
I am here to tell our side of the story. The reason for the delay is that we didn't want to comment on a public forum until we had discussed the matter with our attorneys.
The story starts off with how we ended up with this customer. He came in after he had a cam package installed by Lingenfelter on his Z06 and it dropped a valve after some time of use and threw the rod out the side of the block destroying everything including his starter, damaging his engine harness, etc. Nothing was reusable. This is one of the reasons the bill was so high. He tried contacting them to see if there was any type of warranty and see what they could do for him and they told him there was nothing that they would do for him. Lingenfelter is a reputable and well known shop and by no means has done anything wrong here.
So we took in the job and built the first engine which made 570+ RWHP and there was plenty of video of him racing cars that had claimed higher horsepower figures yet he was still winning. The warranty in the bill was from a previous company when Cartek was co-owned by Julio and Dave. After Julio bought out Dave the company was changed. Dave had made some business decisions that we did not want to haunt us.
The warranty states "normal wear and tear". On that original engine that he states had failed, he conveniently forgot to mention that it failed when he was at a track day event and took the oil temperature above 290 degrees with non-synthetic oil by his own admission. Immediately following this he had low oil pressure. He wanted the engine warrantied, we told him no that it is not under warranty since we are no longer the same company and that even if we were still the same company, you damaged the engine while racing and the damage was due to your own negligence on top of that.
He was very upset and up to that point had been a good customer so after some careful thought and truly believing that he was decent guy, we'd decided that we should take care of him....clearly "a bad business decision".
We said we would help thinking that it would be just a simple rebuild. Well upon dis-assembly we saw that the block was junk, needed a new crank (the snout was bent... we had questions as to how that happened... we know it didn't leave that way), pistons, etc. Since we had already committed to fixing his problem for him we stood by our word and at no charge built him a new engine... a second engine. We selected smaller 4.125 pistons to give the engine another service life and to add rigidity to the engine. The lifters were also junk since they had so much bearing debris go through them, we replaced the Morels with Comp R lifters which are lighter for the road racing that he wanted to do. This was no longer a warranty build, but a gift to help him get back out, so we changed a couple of things to make things better while we were at it. The second motor ran just as well as the first one and made the same power.
After a few days we get a call that the car had died and would no longer run after running like crap. So he brings in the car and we see that there is an electrical problem. The electrical problem was related to damage to the engine harness not realized in the very first engine failure before it came to our shop. He is complaining that he wants his car back ASAP and that it had been here for 2 months (please note, one really shouldn't be complaining since they just got a free engine), so Julio spends the entire night diagnosing and along with the help of GM schematics and wire probing gets the problem narrowed down to a ground on the harness. This ground ties into a few sensors including the O2 sensors. So the O2 sensors were malfunctioning and the car had "learned out" the tune causing the car to run real rich and wash out the rings. The customer comes in the next day, everything is fine, and he starts complaining about the bill we submitted to him for repairing the harness that, keep in mind, was damaged before the car even came to us. The harness was not broken because of us or anything that we had done in the past so it was a billable item. He becomes very irate, Julio tells him to take his car and just leave and of course this customer has now skipped out on the bill.
The customer while getting his car corner weighted at another shop is talked into getting his car dyno'd since it had been running pretty bad, and expectedly so. He puts the car up and does a pull and sees that the car dyno'd 50 RWHP less. After that the customer contacted us quite upset about what was going on... he questioned the integrity of our shop and threatened to take the engine apart. At this point we were pretty disgusted with this whole transaction. He never gave us a chance to look at it. He now goes to a fourth shop and has yet another dyno pull done and the car dyno'd low again. So he had it retuned back up to 54X RWHP (so obviously the previous tune was gone and it didn't fully recover probably due to the rings being washed out). Now that he retuned it, even if there was a warranty (and as stated above, there was none at all), he has now clearly voided it anyway with that retune.
He posts up his findings in an unfair light and blasts us on the internet. So at this point why would we ever do anything for this obviously ungrateful person ever again.
He's then convinced that his low power is the result of too small a cam being selected. The cam he had in there made the power and was not huge since he wanted a road race cam and those cams are typically milder to allow the valvetrain to live longer. So he lets the other shop change out the cam for some larger selection... once again voiding any type of warranty even if there was one to begin with, but it doesn't matter because there wasn't any. After the new cam he dyno'd something like 16 RWHP more from what we'd heard and the car is now not going as fast as it previously had... I guess that new cam and tune didn't work out too well.
Finally the engine had a ticking noise, who knows how that new camshaft was set up??? He basically had now also destroyed his second engine. According to the video the lifter was damaged... well that is probably due to an improper cam selection for his application.
So the customer now calls me to ask for replacement parts for what he didn't receive. He mentions the smaller pistons (.005" smaller = less than 1 cubic inch) and wants new pistons, he also mentions the lifters and wants new Morels. I told him that he was entitled to nothing and that the parts he received were just as good (the Comp R lifters he received were the higher Comp lifter part# and are lighter than the Morels and are far better for his valvetrain with the cam we had selected). On the phone the customer says "if you want this to go away, you should give me what I want.", I said to that "is this a threat?" to which he replied "uh, huh".
That's called EXTORTION and our lawyers are quite familiar with how to handle that.
There are lots of people that know what we stand for and also know that we truly do stand behind our work. We are not known for any type of questionable or shady practices.
I suppose you simply can't keep everyone happy.
We believe that we have handled this better than most and have done everything humanly possible to make the situation right, actually we went above and beyond what is expected.
Thanks everyone for taking the time to read this.
Max
The story starts off with how we ended up with this customer. He came in after he had a cam package installed by Lingenfelter on his Z06 and it dropped a valve after some time of use and threw the rod out the side of the block destroying everything including his starter, damaging his engine harness, etc. Nothing was reusable. This is one of the reasons the bill was so high. He tried contacting them to see if there was any type of warranty and see what they could do for him and they told him there was nothing that they would do for him. Lingenfelter is a reputable and well known shop and by no means has done anything wrong here.
So we took in the job and built the first engine which made 570+ RWHP and there was plenty of video of him racing cars that had claimed higher horsepower figures yet he was still winning. The warranty in the bill was from a previous company when Cartek was co-owned by Julio and Dave. After Julio bought out Dave the company was changed. Dave had made some business decisions that we did not want to haunt us.
The warranty states "normal wear and tear". On that original engine that he states had failed, he conveniently forgot to mention that it failed when he was at a track day event and took the oil temperature above 290 degrees with non-synthetic oil by his own admission. Immediately following this he had low oil pressure. He wanted the engine warrantied, we told him no that it is not under warranty since we are no longer the same company and that even if we were still the same company, you damaged the engine while racing and the damage was due to your own negligence on top of that.
He was very upset and up to that point had been a good customer so after some careful thought and truly believing that he was decent guy, we'd decided that we should take care of him....clearly "a bad business decision".
We said we would help thinking that it would be just a simple rebuild. Well upon dis-assembly we saw that the block was junk, needed a new crank (the snout was bent... we had questions as to how that happened... we know it didn't leave that way), pistons, etc. Since we had already committed to fixing his problem for him we stood by our word and at no charge built him a new engine... a second engine. We selected smaller 4.125 pistons to give the engine another service life and to add rigidity to the engine. The lifters were also junk since they had so much bearing debris go through them, we replaced the Morels with Comp R lifters which are lighter for the road racing that he wanted to do. This was no longer a warranty build, but a gift to help him get back out, so we changed a couple of things to make things better while we were at it. The second motor ran just as well as the first one and made the same power.
After a few days we get a call that the car had died and would no longer run after running like crap. So he brings in the car and we see that there is an electrical problem. The electrical problem was related to damage to the engine harness not realized in the very first engine failure before it came to our shop. He is complaining that he wants his car back ASAP and that it had been here for 2 months (please note, one really shouldn't be complaining since they just got a free engine), so Julio spends the entire night diagnosing and along with the help of GM schematics and wire probing gets the problem narrowed down to a ground on the harness. This ground ties into a few sensors including the O2 sensors. So the O2 sensors were malfunctioning and the car had "learned out" the tune causing the car to run real rich and wash out the rings. The customer comes in the next day, everything is fine, and he starts complaining about the bill we submitted to him for repairing the harness that, keep in mind, was damaged before the car even came to us. The harness was not broken because of us or anything that we had done in the past so it was a billable item. He becomes very irate, Julio tells him to take his car and just leave and of course this customer has now skipped out on the bill.
The customer while getting his car corner weighted at another shop is talked into getting his car dyno'd since it had been running pretty bad, and expectedly so. He puts the car up and does a pull and sees that the car dyno'd 50 RWHP less. After that the customer contacted us quite upset about what was going on... he questioned the integrity of our shop and threatened to take the engine apart. At this point we were pretty disgusted with this whole transaction. He never gave us a chance to look at it. He now goes to a fourth shop and has yet another dyno pull done and the car dyno'd low again. So he had it retuned back up to 54X RWHP (so obviously the previous tune was gone and it didn't fully recover probably due to the rings being washed out). Now that he retuned it, even if there was a warranty (and as stated above, there was none at all), he has now clearly voided it anyway with that retune.
He posts up his findings in an unfair light and blasts us on the internet. So at this point why would we ever do anything for this obviously ungrateful person ever again.
He's then convinced that his low power is the result of too small a cam being selected. The cam he had in there made the power and was not huge since he wanted a road race cam and those cams are typically milder to allow the valvetrain to live longer. So he lets the other shop change out the cam for some larger selection... once again voiding any type of warranty even if there was one to begin with, but it doesn't matter because there wasn't any. After the new cam he dyno'd something like 16 RWHP more from what we'd heard and the car is now not going as fast as it previously had... I guess that new cam and tune didn't work out too well.
Finally the engine had a ticking noise, who knows how that new camshaft was set up??? He basically had now also destroyed his second engine. According to the video the lifter was damaged... well that is probably due to an improper cam selection for his application.
So the customer now calls me to ask for replacement parts for what he didn't receive. He mentions the smaller pistons (.005" smaller = less than 1 cubic inch) and wants new pistons, he also mentions the lifters and wants new Morels. I told him that he was entitled to nothing and that the parts he received were just as good (the Comp R lifters he received were the higher Comp lifter part# and are lighter than the Morels and are far better for his valvetrain with the cam we had selected). On the phone the customer says "if you want this to go away, you should give me what I want.", I said to that "is this a threat?" to which he replied "uh, huh".
That's called EXTORTION and our lawyers are quite familiar with how to handle that.
There are lots of people that know what we stand for and also know that we truly do stand behind our work. We are not known for any type of questionable or shady practices.
I suppose you simply can't keep everyone happy.
We believe that we have handled this better than most and have done everything humanly possible to make the situation right, actually we went above and beyond what is expected.
Thanks everyone for taking the time to read this.
Max
#15
TECH Senior Member
iTrader: (39)
My recipe is as fallows
Stock 2001 LS1 bottom end
CARTEK 4X ported LS6 heads
CARTEK 4X cam
QTP 1-3/4" headers
TSP True Duals
Port matched Fast 90 / Ported Fast 90 TB
42 #/hr injectors
Elec Waster Pump
ASP underdrive pully
TSP 85mm Lid & K&N
Tuned by CARTEK
put down 507RWHP through 4.56 gears in a 12-bolt... with a 10-bolt and 3.42 is would be quite a bit more.
Stock 2001 LS1 bottom end
CARTEK 4X ported LS6 heads
CARTEK 4X cam
QTP 1-3/4" headers
TSP True Duals
Port matched Fast 90 / Ported Fast 90 TB
42 #/hr injectors
Elec Waster Pump
ASP underdrive pully
TSP 85mm Lid & K&N
Tuned by CARTEK
put down 507RWHP through 4.56 gears in a 12-bolt... with a 10-bolt and 3.42 is would be quite a bit more.
#17
CARTEK Racing
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I appreciate Spectre86 posting Max's answer the claim. This was nothing but a thinly vailed attempt by a direct compeditor of CARTEK's to damage CARTEK's reputation in order to drum up more business for themselves. Very pathetic if you ask me.
If someone had a genuine beef with CARTEK I could udnerstand, and if I had power over, I would try to help the person. But when people lie or ommit facts that will otherwise show their claims to be not true, its truly pathertic.
9secondsflat, you really need to look around more, there is a lot of **** floating around the internet, you cant simply latch onto one thing without seeing the other side of the story.
#18
CARTEK Racing
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I never had a problem with bottom end torque, but then again, I don't need power below 4500 RPM. I launch the car at 6500 and shift at 7000, what it does below those levels, does not matter to me. Streetability was never comprimised, I can start out in 3rd gear up hill and the car will just go. I can get the car moving up to about 40mph w/o giving it ANY throttle, simply by shifting up in gear at 900rpm. Here is a dyno graph:
I believe I was told the compression is along the lines of 11.25:1 or so. As far as the piston comming out of the bore, its a factory assembled stock bottom end LS1, how much does the piston comes out on a stock motor?