Ryan23silverado

iTrader: (1)

Patriot Performance has all of their head flow numbers nicely layed out on their web site, including the cost of the various heads and port volumes. I am looking for a lot more information from Total Engine Airflow heads. They have a small chart on their site, but for LS1 and 5.3L truck heads only -no prices, no port volumes???

I am looking at a stage 2 LS6 head from Patriot Performance. I am not too sure about the welding of the combustion chamber though..any downside to doing this i.e. weld eventually cracks etc.? Any rwhp gain numbers from people who run them?

TEA has very good flow numbers on exhaust sides of their cylinder heads, and I have noticed the new forum thread about Brian Tooley's work on a stage 2.5 head on his C5 that gained 90hp But is there more information about TEA's heads that anyone has? For example price of a ported LS6 head and port volumes on the various heads.

SPANKY LS1

iTrader: (24)

A few things:

-You cannot compare flow numbers on heads not flowed together, there are too many variables.

-TEA measures exhaust flow with a pipe, something that most others do not do (that I have seen), so the exhaust numbers are inflated (compared to others).

-The TEA head gaining 90hp was on a nitrous car that was (most likely) maxing out its old heads, of course 90hp could be gained when going from a S1.5 5.3L head, to a S3 LS6 head.

-As far as the welding on the Patriot heads, as I understand it the welding is done before any machine work, so you should be fine as far as that goes.

-I would definitely look into AS or Patriot heads (Thise new "LS6 style" heads look awesome. That being said, TEA has had some problems, but they appear to have them corrected, and are on the right path. Some of their more recent stuff has been good. These guys are masters of 5.0 Mustang heads, so they know what they are doing, just is taking them some time to get up on the LS1s.

Damian

iTrader: (89)

This has been covered several times. Both companies offer an exceptional product.

I personally run TEA cylinder heads. They are consistant, and Brian Tooley stands behind his product. We also have quite a few local cars making GREAT power with the TEA 1.5's. I couldn't imagine what kind of power their LS6 style head would make. One local car made 450 rwhp with a small F1 cam, which is unheard of in Georgia. TEA gets my vote, however Patriot seems to be showing quality work as well.


josh

slyws6

I run patriot heads just because well....they were free I did their website. Anyway I haven't dyno'd yet but I the last 2 people I saw run the Stage II LS6 head from PP the M6 put down 470rwhp and the A$ put down 445rwhp. Some of the highest #'s i've seen yet. Just my opinion however I may be a little biased

-Sly

Hardtop

iTrader: (3)

Interesting. I was probably one of the first people to run TEA heads. What problems would you be talking about. My heads are as delivered from TEA. I have changed the cam once. Been running them well over a year with many drag strip and street miles on them. No problems. Car runs pretty good for a M6 at 3500 lbs.

Bruce

Beast96Z

iTrader: (21)

TEA can't touch the price of Patriot's LS-6 style head. If you went the LS-6 route with TEA, you would still have to pay the $1300 LS-6 core charge on top of the price of the heads. Not to mention you can choose you cc size to alter compression which you can't do with TEA. The welding on the patriot's is a very teddious process. It has been said that the material that is welded in is as good, if not better than the material of the head. There should be no problems with that. I vote for patriot.

SPANKY LS1

iTrader: (24)

You are biased, and incorrect. Gomer put down 45Xrwhp through a 10 bolt with PP "LS6" heads and a 231/237 cam. CamM put down 447 rwhp with AS LS1 heads, and G5X2 cam, through a 12 bolt. You must not have seen the 468+ rwhp Vette with AS heads on it? Or the 455+ rwhp Vette with AS heads on it? Or the....

Who dynoed 47X w/PP heads?

gomer

iTrader: (13)

Please make sure you have your facts straight before posting stuff like that, Patriot had to endure alot to get where they are now, posts like that hurt more than they help. On THIS board I am pretty sure that my car has the highest dyno numbers with patriot heads. And yes mine was thru a 10 bolt, 17x11 rear wheels and NO electric waterpump.

Brian Tooley Racing

iTrader: (13)

Sorry for the lack of information. We are updating the site as we speak and we are going to give guys more tech info then they know what to do with. Flow charts, port volumes, CNC programs, chamber programs, valve train weights, dyno numbers from our dyno vs some other stuff? etc. It is true that our product will cost more then PP, on our dyno our 5.3 head seems to be about 10 RWHP better then theirs, but I'm sure the LS6 style heads would probably outpower our 5.3 heads. So it comes down to dollars, HP, durability and personal preference. There are alot of companies offering good products at a good price.
We have decided rather then offer the cheapest head possible we are going to offer a head that hopefully outpowers anything out there at any price, and of course it will not be cheap.

SPANKY LS1

iTrader: (24)

Are you gonna get an electric water pump any time soon? Or a 12 bolt/9" rearend? I would like to see the actual rwhp gains and losses of both on a high-hp H/C car.

Shawn

TVWilkes

I will continue to offer the best priced,highest quality head that I can produce.I have said it many times,that my goal is to offer the best set of heads,REGARDLESS OF PRICE.Yes, our prices are ceaper than most,but on my flow bench I have yet to see a head outflow what I offer.This includes the 5.3 and the LS6 style.

I did not come on here and bash back and forth about flow numbers vs another company or Dyno's vs Dyno's.It does not matter unless they are all tested on the same bench at the same time with the same bore size ect...I want my product to speak for itself, on the track.

With that being said,look at the results from the Quick Stock class from the Thunder Shootout.

Ryan23silverado

iTrader: (1)

These are good replies. I was hesitant to post something of this nature especially when the shop owners read this post. I have come to understand that simply because heads are flowed differently (pipe vs. no pipe etc...) on different flowbenches they will yield different flow numbers. This does NOT infinitely mean one head is better than the other.
I agree that if any information is given, it should be as specific as possible to lesson the misunderstandings that could be incorrectly realized from some forum post.

After the disclaimer, I know both companies offer very good products and good customer service with my e-mail questions. It is just good to have all of the head info. posted online, I think. And since I hear that things are being updated as I write...that's cool Thanks again!

NEVR2ND

iTrader: (10)

PATRIOT gets my vote.

slyws6

Spanky LS1 and Gomer:

Ok your right I need to get my facts straight, the 470rwhp that I was thinking of was from a diff forum and totally diff setup. Anyway, as for the 445rwhp A4 just look at the post in this forum titled...

"1st Patriot Heads & G5X-#3 dyno #;s"

I'm not here to hurt PP reputation whatsoever, I think they are a great company and Terry definately knows his stuff. Customer service is an A+++ , Sorry for any misunderstandings or confusion.

-Sly

Tally TransAm

iTrader: (17)

patriot here

great product and awesome customer serive

99 Black Bird T/A

iTrader: (4)

Looking forward to the new data that will be on the TEA site.

The old TEA head on was a 1.5 and made ~600rwhp based on what was posted a few days ago. The new TEA 2.5 head with several refinements made 690rwhp on the same car. I think roller rockers were added an ATI pulley or something like that. That's a 90 rwhp gain on the gas with basically everything staying the same except replacing the TEA 1.5's with the new TEA 2.5's.

How's the weld up on the Pats done? By hand?

As for flow numbers on heads - for sponsor vs sponsor not possible to compare. Really need to get the heads on the same bench and compare them.

FWIW

As for flow numbers well they are important to a degree...but there are some heads that flow 20-25 cfm less that will out power other heads that flow 20-25 cfm more...how can this be?...well there are tricks to resuspending the fuel that's dropped out in the port...sometimes the resuspension tricks can hurt flow...but help power.

I have heads flowed independantly.

ne14a6t9

deffinatly look at proven power before looking at advertised flow numbers, flow benches vary. You cant compare patiot vrs tea advertised floe numbers becuase they have 2 tottally different flow benches by different manufacturers, we went through this in the past.
Tea has been around longer and have a trouble free product. Patriot is brand new and had some troubles in the start that I have not heard happening anymore.
as far as welding heads I was told to becarfull with a product lke that I was told by my speed shop that the weld could become porous or cuase cracks and the valve seat inserts can loosen up and fall out, although the patriots lq9 heads seem to be holding up so far with no problems, nothing but good power

TVWilkes

I have beed welding heads for drag & dirt track cars since the late 80's.Some of these engines make 700+ hp.I have never had a problem with the welding.If done properly this is not an issue.When the welding process is performed the head is in a casting form,there is no seats,no guides,no bolt holes ect..ect...All of the machining process is performed after the heads have been welded then heat treated.

Ed Curtis

Terry,

I am working on setting up this exact type of flow bench data compiling next month. We will be testing the LS heads on 4.125 and 3.910 bore fixtures with both the 1-3/4 and 1-7/8 pipes on the exhaust. Radiused entrance on the intake side.

All testing done at the same time, on the same SF600 that every cylinder head company uses as their benchmark tool.

If you or any of your customers are interested in having their heads added to the test, let me know as soon as possible. All testing is free but you'll have to pay for the return shipping charges.

Let me know if you're interested!

Ed

Beast96Z

iTrader: (21)

I got my Stage 3 LS-6 heads from Patriot today. I have to say that the welding process is something you will never notice. If you didn't know any better, you'd think that that was the stock combustion chamber. If anything, the weld looks better than the aluminum of the head! I've already had one well known performance shop look at them and they said it was the finest welding job they had ever seen. They didn't even believe they were welded at first. Thanks for the next day air Terry. I didn't even ask for it, but he knew I was anxious to get them. That's customer service.