Who here has the stock stall with their mid sized cam
07-10-2009, 12:50 PM
#1
Who here has the stock stall with their mid sized cam Everyone on this site swears that you need a stall in order to have a cam. Now I know the stall will wake up the car but I just wonder how a car performs with the stock stall.
So if you have a stock stall with a cam, chime in and let me know how it is.
O and by the way, i dont want people coming in here telling me to get a stall or to search to find out that stalls are better. dont waste your time.
So if you have a stock stall with a cam, chime in and let me know how it is.
O and by the way, i dont want people coming in here telling me to get a stall or to search to find out that stalls are better. dont waste your time.
07-10-2009, 01:16 PM
#4
I would say this and this is just advice and take it as such. The way that the tranny is set with the stock stall is for that particular cam. The stall is mostly for drive ability if it is a DD. With out a stall in any cam that is not stock you are putting a lot more work, pressure and load on your transmission. Meaning that in the very short future you'll either have to get a tranny rebuild, a new tranny or a stall tranny combo. A stall will run you a lot less than a tranny but you will find that out.
07-10-2009, 01:26 PM
#6
Ok to answer your question yes I did I had a cam in my Mustang with heads, back about 10 years ago. My mech told that I would need a stall, to save my stock tranny, I told him no that I would roll the dice. About 3 month later after driving like i do my tranny took a ****. It was a tranny/stall combo that ran me 4K parts and labor. I had issues with drive ability she would stall in at stop lights at times, over all it was not a good idea. Ever since then every H/C package I have done I install a converter no matter what. Specially in my Corvette. This is my 4th H/C package on as many cars.
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07-10-2009, 04:12 PM
#9
I have been driving mine for nearly a year like this. At first the tune had the car on the converter all the time, but now that I dropped the idle RPM in gear to 750 its a TON better.
I daily drove the car like this until the end of May.
So far my best track time was 8.46@87mph with a 2.1 60ft in 2000 DA. This was with a race weight of 3800+ and before I added my CAI that pulls air from under the car instead of the hot engine bay.
While the car is better to drive now than it was with the other tune...that's not saying a ton because I was used to it. The car pulls itself around a good bit, which is hell on the transmission temps as well as the car's brakes. I have an aux cooler on mine and the transmission will still get as hot as 200* in this summer heat (230* is considered the danger zone but I still would rather see it down around 170-180*).
From a stop between the cam/stall/tires/suspension I can't turn the tires over no matter how hard I try...which is kinda good, but the car doesn't pull hard until 3k rpms, which sucks.
It sounds great, mileage is still 24mpg+ highway, and runs great above 3k and especially great above 4k, but under it is lame. The car doesn't stop as well as it should, you have to press the brakes hard to keep the car from moving and light to maintain a speed under 20mph (with the old tune it used to run itself up to 35mph without touching the gas).
My highest priority as soon as I get a job is to pull the transmission for a quick refresh and put in a stall. It's a pain to drive and frankly IMO, I look like a jackass running with bolt-on/exhaust cars with my cammed car.
That's as unbiased a review as I think you will get. So in short, you CAN do it. But coming from someone who is currently doing it...it's not a great idea. Your car WILL be faster with a stall and boltons than with a cam and boltons.
Hell even a mild stall in the 2800 range that is nice and tight would be a MASSIVE improvement. I am either going to go 3200 or 3600 with mine, but it will be something tight, from what I've read if you get one that's tight enough you will barely notice it and it will drive like stock until you want to get down to business.
I daily drove the car like this until the end of May.
So far my best track time was 8.46@87mph with a 2.1 60ft in 2000 DA. This was with a race weight of 3800+ and before I added my CAI that pulls air from under the car instead of the hot engine bay.
While the car is better to drive now than it was with the other tune...that's not saying a ton because I was used to it. The car pulls itself around a good bit, which is hell on the transmission temps as well as the car's brakes. I have an aux cooler on mine and the transmission will still get as hot as 200* in this summer heat (230* is considered the danger zone but I still would rather see it down around 170-180*).
From a stop between the cam/stall/tires/suspension I can't turn the tires over no matter how hard I try...which is kinda good, but the car doesn't pull hard until 3k rpms, which sucks.
It sounds great, mileage is still 24mpg+ highway, and runs great above 3k and especially great above 4k, but under it is lame. The car doesn't stop as well as it should, you have to press the brakes hard to keep the car from moving and light to maintain a speed under 20mph (with the old tune it used to run itself up to 35mph without touching the gas).
My highest priority as soon as I get a job is to pull the transmission for a quick refresh and put in a stall. It's a pain to drive and frankly IMO, I look like a jackass running with bolt-on/exhaust cars with my cammed car.
That's as unbiased a review as I think you will get. So in short, you CAN do it. But coming from someone who is currently doing it...it's not a great idea. Your car WILL be faster with a stall and boltons than with a cam and boltons.
Hell even a mild stall in the 2800 range that is nice and tight would be a MASSIVE improvement. I am either going to go 3200 or 3600 with mine, but it will be something tight, from what I've read if you get one that's tight enough you will barely notice it and it will drive like stock until you want to get down to business.
07-10-2009, 04:28 PM
#10
^^^Excellent post. Back when my car was A4, I ran the stock stall and the GM ASA cam (226/236 .525/.525 110lsa) for almost a year. The above is a perfect description of how my car drove until I put a 3600 stall in it. Everyone says you need a stall with a cam because it's true, listen to them.
07-10-2009, 04:39 PM
#11
I would like to add I have NEVER driven a stalled car. I have had mild-mid cammed sbc cars before and been happy with them on stock type stalls in the 1200-1800 range.
I have ridden in a ls1 car with a loose 4k stall and did not like that much for a street car either.
To be honest if I were to jump into a 4th gen fbody with a cam and stall, I would be able to tolerate it as far as drive ability (would still be pissed about being slow). My car has crappy brakes in comparison and I am used to the car not stopping worth a damn by modern standards. If you are used to modern cars and especially how your car stops, you will HATE it.
I have ridden in a ls1 car with a loose 4k stall and did not like that much for a street car either.
To be honest if I were to jump into a 4th gen fbody with a cam and stall, I would be able to tolerate it as far as drive ability (would still be pissed about being slow). My car has crappy brakes in comparison and I am used to the car not stopping worth a damn by modern standards. If you are used to modern cars and especially how your car stops, you will HATE it.
07-11-2009, 01:29 AM
#13
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I have a 3600 stall, and you can tell it's there, but if you keep your foot out of it, it locks up around 45 mph (for me) and goes to stock driving, and you literally won't be able to tell the difference.
Unless you floor it obviously
You want the stall to get into your power band. If you can't get into the power band quickly, it's going to feel like a turd.
Unless you floor it obviously
You want the stall to get into your power band. If you can't get into the power band quickly, it's going to feel like a turd.
07-12-2009, 02:32 AM
#14
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Stall before Cam. You will be suprised how a nice SS3600 converter will wake up a stock engine'd A4 car. Typically what, 0.5s improvement I believe is the norm...
It's cheaper as well. I think $750.00 for the converter, cam kit is around $1k with everything; assuming you are doing all the work yourself.
Look into 3.73 gears as well.
It's cheaper as well. I think $750.00 for the converter, cam kit is around $1k with everything; assuming you are doing all the work yourself.
Look into 3.73 gears as well.
07-12-2009, 02:40 AM
#15
girlfriend has a stock converter with an ls6 cam.. you can tell it needs a few more rpms on the converter.. at red lights your leg gets tired cause it wants to push through the converter..
you will pick up more out of a converter anyways..
a cam is going to affect driving more than a stall.
you will pick up more out of a converter anyways..
a cam is going to affect driving more than a stall.
07-12-2009, 06:21 PM
#16
I've got a hotcam w stock converter. I have tuned on it quite a bit, and it is driveable, I drive every other day or so to work. however it is not anything like driving a stock car. Def not something I would turn my wife loose in to take to the store or something. It still tries pushing the brakes at a stop light, or say you pull up to a stop sign and there is gravel in the area, it will scoot some. I am used to driving it, and honestly just too lazy to pull the trans and put a converter in it. I'll get in the mood one of these days. I can tell it is def leaving some on the table not having a stall. Had I not had the motor apart for other reasons, I would have done a converter first.
07-12-2009, 07:29 PM
#17
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I drive mine everyday without any problems at all. It's kind of been tuned but it's definately not right. Doesn't surge through the converter or anything. 22x/22x 58x/58x on a 114.
07-12-2009, 09:06 PM
#18
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Just for comparison and I am not trashing on thunderstruck's car, but my full bolt on, stock cam, stock stall, on street tires, A4 pulls 7.9-8.2's around 85mph consistantly with a 1.8-1.9 60ft @ 1500 DA so throwing a cam in without a stall is actually going to slow you down a bit at least in the 1/8th mile. Just my .02
Last edited by mook99ta; 07-13-2009 at 08:14 AM.
07-13-2009, 10:02 AM
#20
I've installed tons of cams in stock stalled cars. Stay under 228 duration and keep it on a 114 LSA. With a half decent tune it'll run perfectly fine on a stock stall.
Do I condone it? No. The car will be faster with the stall first. Will it drive fine? Yes, if you follow my recommendations on specs.
Do I condone it? No. The car will be faster with the stall first. Will it drive fine? Yes, if you follow my recommendations on specs.
