00Camary

iTrader: (15)

Anyone running this combo?

I am a newbie at tech and would appreciate any help i can get.

SS4Luck

iTrader: (10)

idk but im interested too. Im thinking about AFRs with my MS4

eamador11

The AFR/LG G5X-3 has been a solid combination for years. The MS3 is a similar grind so it shouldnt be too far off.

Yes mill them to 59cc for that size cam. Always check PTV clearance though.

PREDATOR-Z

Flycut for best results

Jason 98 TA

iTrader: (4)

I agree with Pred. Z. Extra compression will be important to get the combo to make power up to it's potential!

Detoxx03

iTrader: (14)

It sounds like it will make crazy power

dnkynrbk

iTrader: (34)

I had a ms3 w/ patriot heads 64cc chamber in my old 370 full race weight car with 4L60E 3500 Stall it would run 11.04 could have push it to the 10s but changed set up. Ran dam well.

dnkynrbk

iTrader: (34)

my set up was 11-1 compression

00Camary

iTrader: (15)

I hear ya on getting the most out of the cam by milling to 59cc. I just dont want to do that and risk sitting on the heads when it is time to sell. In milling i would think that i would limit my resale audience to only a certain few. That is more important to me than putting down a little better of a number.

Red99TA

iTrader: (11)

You don't have to take them down to 59cc - go to 62cc with a 0.040" cometic gasket will still get you 11.3-11.4:1 CR and will still be very marketable down the road.

00Camary

iTrader: (15)

Okay so here is the deal.... I dont want to fly cut the pistons..... thats getting in too deep for what i want.

I am such a newbie when it comes to this type stuff. Please bear with me.

I need to know what i can get away with. I want to surely stay clear of risking ptvc. So should i keep the heads at 66cc and dont sweat milling or can i get away with milling a little bit on the heads to benefit with a better CR? If so how much? I am not looking to dig too deep into the motor flycutting and whatnot.

Will it be ridiculous of me to install them at 66cc? If milling to 64 cc gives me 5hp i dont see it worth the $200 to mill them. The problem is that i dont know what i am doing and what might be beneficial or not. I can turn wrenches and have done so on all my cars but the specs are what kills me.

I am leaning on you knowledgeable guys to help me out. Thanks in advance.

SOMbitch

iTrader: (8)

places around here mill for $50 a head just so you know.....

BAD2000TA

iTrader: (6)

It's funny, you ask for advice, so some of the most knowledgeable people on this site chime-in, yet you don't want to follow their advice. If you think you're getting too far into things, then you probably should re-think going with such a big cam and not doing what's necessary to run it efficiently. Taking a "band-aid" approach is not the way to proceed. If you don't want to do certain things, such as milling or fly-cutting, pick a combo that allows you to run standard combustion heads and a cam that works within proper piston-to-valve clearance.

But, here's the funny thing I noticed: You are willing to spending $2,000+ for AFR 205 heads, plus another $400.00 or so for an MS3 cam, add in other stuff like pushrods, springs, rocker arms, and a tune, yet you complain about the cost for milling the heads??? Trying to build a "killer motor" on a budget takes a lot of time and research. Don't cut corners. You'll be sorry down the road.

P.S. - I'm not trying to be a downer to your plans, just plan it out better. Good luck!!

Red99TA

iTrader: (11)

^Good point. Obviously you will be leaving some power on the table by not milling or running a thinner head gasket for better quench. How much is hard to say. When I did my build I wasn't planning on flycutting as I had originally planned on stock GM gaskets with the 62cc AFR's. I figured that while I was so deep into the work that I won't be pulling the heads off ever again (until I go bigger cubes) so why leave anything on the table? So then I got the 0.040" cometics which pushed my PTV down to about 0.070" on the intake which is a little too close. Rented the in-head piston cutter and notched 0.025" myself - it was much easier than you would think. I also took time to degree the cam in since I wanted to be sure my setup was installed as designed (again not leaving anything on the table). Lastly I topped it off with a ported 90/90 setup and I'm done. Hitting the track in a couple weeks to see the fruits of my labor assuming my poor LS6 clutch will hold for a couple runs.

caddy03pimpin

iTrader: (18)

i wanted to see what you guys think of my setup i got a high comp 408 (11-1) i got a set of patriots stage 3 heads , im also using the ms3 cam on a 114, but im also using a radix supercharger. the supercharger shouldnt make more then 5-6 lbs of boost ,meth just in case , this is in my silverado ss with a 4l60e and a 3200 stall, 90mm t body,1/3/4 long tubes, nos wet shot up to 100 my goals are to run low 12 and have more top end power and still keep the the explosive bottom end, i just want to see your thoughts on this and see if there can be improvement in my build thanks for your info

LSGunZ28

iTrader: (8)

Listen to these people...

Flycut the pistons and whoever said, run a .040" gasket and if that should get you at 11.3/11.4 CR, like he said, then do that.. DOnt cheap out.. Just wait a bit longer, save a bit more and dont cut corners. You will be happy

because the higher compression ratio, is gonna make the car better to drive and you will be happy you did it.. Also you may have also needed to flycut regardless, because you may be too close PTV anyhow, so just go ahead and do it...

DONT CUT CORNERS! and just take your time.. the patience will pay off! You will be happy you waited and did it right!

00Camary

iTrader: (15)

Guys listen to my logic. I am not trying to cut corners here i just want to know my options. I have limited tools and the budget to match. I am asking the questions because i dont know and i am trying to learn a bit while doing this. I just need answers to better make my decision. I am not trying to build a track car......it is really a street car only. The MS3 is already installed and has been for a while. I might decide to change cams.... i just dont know yet. I came across a set of heads that i couldn't pass up in terms of price. I had the money available so i bought them knowing it was my next step. I am looking for my available options only. I am not trying to put off the knowledgeable here. I appreciate all of the input and i am making my decisions per the feedback that i am given. Everyone i have asked has given me solid advise and i am taking it all into consideration. If the difference between one option or another is 5-10 hp i might choose to not go all out and not worry about the extra 5-10 if you get what i am saying. I am not trying to have the best built motor possible if it means going through flycutting. Milling is no big deal really... i have a guy for that and he quoted me $160 to get it done. I just need to know more of my options.

Say if i keep the ms3 cam and am willing to mill the heads.... how far can i mill without having to flycut?

Options as such are what i am looking for.

00Camary

iTrader: (15)

Make a thread about it man. People probably wont reply to your question is someone elses thread.

PREDATOR-Z

That has to be measured by you and no one here can give you that answer.
You need to mock install heads, measure PTV with your 66cc chambers.
Based on that, you decide then how much to flycut while being safe for street.
Minimum I would use is .070/.090 (Int/Exht). And that is super minimum on such a high rev cam.

Now let us say you did all that and you are ready for intall, you now have to measure you push rods required length and buy the right ones for proper lifter preload.

Also, what rockers are you using, because AFRs have copper guides (IIRC) and with those you need to run roller rockers or you'll face premature guide wear with a cam of such high lift as you have.

Also, when heads are off, you should degree your cam while in there.

If you put it all together properly, you'll have 1 heck of a setup that will last awhile. The difference between a "slapped on" combo and a "well installed" combo is night and day with the parts you have.

00Camary

iTrader: (15)

Do you mean mill?
I dont know how to measure that..... never done it before but i assume you measure the clay imprint with a micrometer?

Yeah i figured i would be measuring for that considering i will be changing the whole valve train.

I just checked the heads and they do not have copper guides for the PR's... is that what you are referring to or are you talking about valve guides?


Man i wish i had the money to just have someone do it for me. lol