Colonel

I make this post to see what you consider to be acceptable valvespring life, to point out to people considering an aftermarket cam that valvespring life is an issue to consider, and to point out the factors that effect valvespring life. Some of these factors are...

RPMs
How hard the engine is driven.
Overall gearing.
Rocker arm ratio.
The valvesprings themselves.

Which valvespring will last more miles?

a. XE lobe, driven hard and spinning 6800 RPM on a daily basis with many passes at the track every weekend, running 4.10 gears with a 3 speed automatic tranny and a 4600 stall converter (which has NO overdrive.)

or

b. XE-R lobe, driven moderately and rarely seeing above 6000 RPM with track trips only a couple of times a year, running 3.42 gears with an M6 tranny (which has a 50% overdrive.)

I think the answer to that is clear. b. will last FAR longer despite having more aggressive lobes.

GTBMad

No matter which setup you pick ( b is easier on the springs) Seems to me most people seem to forget that when you modify a motor to the extent most people do here. There are risks and if you expectation is to keep warranty or have a daily driven street car that has the same work life as a stocker maybe it should be kept stock.

Acceptable valve spring life I suppose an argument could be made that say if comp can supply a camshaft with an XER lobe they should be recommending a spring set that will last a reasonable duratution.

Me I will keep spare springs on the shelf.

9T9BlueTA

iTrader: (2)

I said 15-20k. My car is not my daily driver and springs are relatively cheap (Patriot ) and not that hard to change. Running bigger cams I expected this. For a cammed car under 224/224 duration and around .560 lift I would find 40k-50k miles more acceptable.

gator's 99TA

iTrader: (2)

who has a performance xe or xe-r cam (which should peak and hold over 6100+ rpms) and shifts at 6000? heck i would launch at 6000 rpms with a manual tranny!

Colonel

You two that voted 75-100K, what cams and springs are you running?

Colonel

Who said anything about shifting an XE or XE-R cam at 6000? If you're talking about my example, what I said was "rarely sees over 6000 RPM." The cam in question might be shifted at 7000 RPM at the track but if the owner daily drives this car and only goes to WOT through a gear change rarely on the street and twice a year at the track, then the cam sees 6000 RPM only rarely, just as I stated.

JoSeY

I PRAY my springs hold up for 30K....I have the X1 cam from MTI which I believe have the XE-R lobes on it...but I PERSONALLY SHIFT AT 6400....cars never seem 7K except on the dyno.....

To me ur valves will always open the same no matter what RPM ur going so ur putting as much bind on the spring at idle as you would at 7K...now I know at 7K ur opening and closing those valves MUCH quicker which is where the wear and tear really come to play...but I don't see why springs shouldn't last a good 20-30K if properly maintained and not run at WOT every time ur in the car. Hell my car rarely see's 4K...heck 3K...I'm such a easy driver even w/my 4000 stall...

If you are worried about spring life...then buy the best u can get or just be prepared to changed ever 10K or so.

GTBMad

Was running 941 with lunati cam just pulled motor down after 110,000k, 3 spring breakages in that time but the original springs on testing when pulled down spring rates were still good.

Will be running 921 springs on this setup

75/100k well you asked what we would like doesnt mean we will get it.New setup will be more aggressive high lift high rpm.

z98

You should reword the question.

I don't think many people would find 100k+ unacceptable!

Maybe "What is the least valvespring life you would find acceptable?"

Perhaps that is the explaination for those votes?

JoSeY

I only shift at 6400 w/my X1....

Colonel

I didn't ask "what valvespring life do you want". Heck, the answer to that would be infinite! Who wouldn't want a valvespring that would NEVER break and never require changing? I asked "what do you consider to be an acceptable valvespring life" and that's exactly what I meant. Unacceptable means that you would NOT accept it. Acceptable means that you would accept it. Common sense should tell you that I'm asking for the least mileage that is acceptable to you otherwise I would have asked "what do you consider to be a GOOD valvespring life?". This is really not that complicated.

Colonel

Ok, I gotta play with this one a little more.

So you're buying a used car from someone. This person says to you, "Would $15,000 be acceptable to you?" Would you say, "No it's not...but I'll take it anyway." I would think you would say something more like, "No, it's not. How about $12,500?"

Ok, dead horse beatin' enough. Ya'll get the point.

Scalpel

iTrader: (4)

Too many variables, but the minimum for the aggressive packages out there, I'd say 10,000 miles, minimum before they need replacing.

Colonel

This thread is not asking how often valvesprings, whether in an aggressive package or not, need replacing. The only variable is the opinion of each person taking the pole. It is simply asking what people feel is an acceptable mileage to them. Some people are willing to change their valvesprings every 10K miles, some are only willing to change them every 20, 30 ,or 40K miles, etc...

Again people, I'm NOT asking how often you think any certain combination or type of combination should go between valvespring changes.

TTopJohn

I really don't want to have to change them - voted 100K. That's just one more dang thing to fix/repair/replace.
So if I can get a 100K valvespring replacement interval(or hell, 60-75K like a timing belt on a honda) and still hit 400-425rwhp, I would like to.

Given the choice, I would pop for a 382 stroker or a 387 all bore with a smaller cam (and longer valvespring replacement intervals) over a 346 with a bigger cam (and shorter valvespring replacement intervals) to hit the horsepower goal.

I look at it like this - enough stuff breaks and wears out, so if it's at all possible, don't add more things to the fix/repair/replace list.

When I get around to dropping $$$$ on an engine package, I want to drive it with a **** eating grin on my face, Zaino it, look at it, and drive it some more. Not work on it some more.

I still want the Camaro to be semi daily driver and long trip car, and put lots of miles on it, even after I get a 2nd car. Especially if I lease that 2nd car and need to stay under a milage limit.

I can see how others would not share the same opinion, but it's all about how you want to use your car.

RPM WS6

iTrader: (3)

Stroker or all bore motors both present the oppertunity for internal items to wear and/or break sooner than a 346 motor. So even though you might be getting the same power with a smaller cam and longer valvespring life, you are facing new potential issues with stroker and/or bored motors over the stock cube motor. Bascially, there is no easy way out. If you are going to mod for more power, something is gonna give sooner than if it were stock.

I expect to get at least (and do not plan to change before) 40-50K miles out of my 26918s with my cam, stall, and driving habits. Why?

- My car basically never sees the track
- At WOT, I am shifting at 63-6400rpm and it only sees WOT once in a while
- I have stock gears
- My stall is not all that large, I usually see no more than 25-2800rpm while driving the car and my lock-up works perfect for expressway cruising
- I have no power adder
- My cam is rather mild .558/.558//221/221//114 (B1)
- I am using 772 light weight ti retainers
- I have stock valves (meaning lighter than big stage II valves and such)
- On a cold start, I allow the motor/oil to warm for longer than most before driving the car
- I NEVER beat on the motor/car till I've been driving for AT LEAST 15 mins or so
- I never dyno the car, nor do I put any other no-or-light load high rpms on the motor

Cal

iTrader: (1)

15 to 20K is fine with me since that's what I put on the car every two years, and I don't mind replacing springs every two years.

But I have to say, what the hell does using WOT have to do with spring wear? How would the springs even know you are at WOT, it doesn't put any more strain on them. I think the important things are the rpm and the temperature you run them at.

BTW I'm running Comp 918's with titanium retainers on a TR224 114 cam.

Colonel

WOT has nothing to do with valvespring life, in and of itself alone. I think when people refer to WOT, in this regard, they are eluding to high RPMs since high RPMs aren't usually seen at any other throttle position than WOT.

But like you said, a given RPM is a given RPM regardless of the throttle position as far as the valvesprings are concerned.

TTopJohn

Like what? I haven't discovered anything yet. Enlighten me.

From everything I've seen you can put high tension rings and have close clearances with an all bore or stroker, and get more or less an OEM lifespan.

Some all bores have dropped sleeves, but that issue will get sorted out over time.
And with a stroker, as long as you don't get crazy with too large of a stroke and create extreme piston/rod angles, there shouldn't be any problems there.

Except for the stall converter (MN6) I fit in most of those categories, so the same should apply to me.

RPM WS6

iTrader: (3)

You answered your own question with this reply. I bolded the reasons...

The potential for both of these is bascially non-exsistant for a stock lower end. Hence, the increase in potential wear/breakage with a modded lower end.

I agree.