Reuse main bolts or not?
12-11-2003, 05:41 PM
#1
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Reuse main bolts or not? Just wondering what everyones thoughts are on reusing the main bolts. Im about to forge my bottom end for a turbo setup. I dont plan on getting the ARP main bolts just using stock bolts but I'm not sure if I should reuse them. This will be the third time it will be reassembled with these bolts. Thanks. 
12-11-2003, 06:13 PM
#3
NOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!! 
Factory bolts are torque to yield and should only be used ONCE (your already late changing them). ARP studs are the way to go ($150 and ARE reusable) but if you are going to go cheap, at least buy some new factory bolts.
I don't see using anything BUT ARP stuff on a forged bottom end. It seems kind of counter productive to spend several $K on really good parts, only to scrap it all on cheap fasteners.
Factory bolts are torque to yield and should only be used ONCE (your already late changing them). ARP studs are the way to go ($150 and ARE reusable) but if you are going to go cheap, at least buy some new factory bolts.
I don't see using anything BUT ARP stuff on a forged bottom end. It seems kind of counter productive to spend several $K on really good parts, only to scrap it all on cheap fasteners.
12-11-2003, 06:18 PM
#4
Originally Posted by 2001CamaroGuy
NOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Factory bolts are torque to yield and should only be used ONCE (your already late changing them). ARP studs are the way to go ($150 and ARE reusable) but if you are going to go cheap, at least buy some new factory bolts.
I don't see using anything BUT ARP stuff on a forged bottom end. It seems kind of counter productive to spend several $K on really good parts, only to scrap it all on cheap fasteners.
Factory bolts are torque to yield and should only be used ONCE (your already late changing them). ARP studs are the way to go ($150 and ARE reusable) but if you are going to go cheap, at least buy some new factory bolts.
I don't see using anything BUT ARP stuff on a forged bottom end. It seems kind of counter productive to spend several $K on really good parts, only to scrap it all on cheap fasteners.
:yup: dont get cheap in the end. especially for a setup like his.
12-11-2003, 10:57 PM
#5
I'm definitely with JRP and 2001Camaroguy on this. Never reuse a stressed fastener on a buildup. You really won't save any money in the long end. It's much better to invest in quality hardware, than to be out money for another rebuild because you lunched the bottom end by getting thrifty. Get some billet main caps.
12-12-2003, 10:15 AM
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OK You guys have convinced me to get the ARPs. Now what needs done when you install these. I was under the impression that you need to have an align hone done???? Is this correct? Or is there no machine work needed?
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12-12-2003, 03:24 PM
#9
Yes you need to align hone the block with studs (studs load the block different than bolts) but really you NEED to align hone anyways (its good sound engine building).
I would assume you are using a used block (will come out better in the end) and if so, then the block has gone through its entire core shift. Thus when you line bore, deck, and rebore/hone, the dimensions will be perfect and will remain that way "for ever". Line boring ensures that the crank will spin freely (won't be cocked at all) and will:
a) free up HP
b) make the crank able to stand more abuse
If I were you (what I will be doing soon) is to take your used block, install the studs (they must be installed when you line bore), and have the block fully machined (usually ~ $500-$600 for everything).
Sawedoff mentioned billet main caps which are nice but its pretty much agreed that you have to be WAY OUT THERE before they become a factor.....but damn they are sexy
I would assume you are using a used block (will come out better in the end) and if so, then the block has gone through its entire core shift. Thus when you line bore, deck, and rebore/hone, the dimensions will be perfect and will remain that way "for ever". Line boring ensures that the crank will spin freely (won't be cocked at all) and will:
a) free up HP
b) make the crank able to stand more abuse
If I were you (what I will be doing soon) is to take your used block, install the studs (they must be installed when you line bore), and have the block fully machined (usually ~ $500-$600 for everything).
Sawedoff mentioned billet main caps which are nice but its pretty much agreed that you have to be WAY OUT THERE before they become a factor.....but damn they are sexy
12-12-2003, 11:28 PM
#13
Originally Posted by 4mulaJoe
OMG. I re-used the stock main bolts! I hope the crank doesn't fall out.
ALOT of people re-use them. More than once even.
ALOT of people re-use them. More than once even.
ALOT of people do ALOT of stupid things......you could also play Russian Rulet, not catch the bullet on the first round, and then say "see....its safe......"
some things you can cut corners on (we don't all have $30K for a C5R 427) and then there are just some things that you have to be stupid NOT to do......good fasteners is one of those "your a dipshit if you don't" things......
it all comes down to "its YOUR car...do what YOU want........but if/when something comes apart, don't come crying
......you were warned" Last edited by 2001CamaroGuy; 12-12-2003 at 11:33 PM.
12-12-2003, 11:42 PM
#14
i've built a lot of motors and am guilty at times of reusing main bolts in ls1's, however after my last fiasco (see sig) I have one word.....STUDS! I will not put a motor back together and go through the trouble just to have such a small and relatively insignificantly priced item cause $3000+ worth of damage later. Just not a chance I'm willing to take.
Nasty - I'm not sure why you would need to line hone a motor just because of studs. Why would that cause the need for a line hone? Thanks
Nasty - I'm not sure why you would need to line hone a motor just because of studs. Why would that cause the need for a line hone? Thanks
12-13-2003, 10:43 AM
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Originally Posted by 2001CamaroGuy
ALOT of people do ALOT of stupid things......you could also play Russian Rulet, not catch the bullet on the first round, and then say "see....its safe......"
some things you can cut corners on (we don't all have $30K for a C5R 427) and then there are just some things that you have to be stupid NOT to do......good fasteners is one of those "your a dipshit if you don't" things......
it all comes down to "its YOUR car...do what YOU want........but if/when something comes apart, don't come crying ......you were warned"
some things you can cut corners on (we don't all have $30K for a C5R 427) and then there are just some things that you have to be stupid NOT to do......good fasteners is one of those "your a dipshit if you don't" things......
it all comes down to "its YOUR car...do what YOU want........but if/when something comes apart, don't come crying
......you were warned"
12-13-2003, 11:05 AM
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Originally Posted by 4mulaJoe
OMG. I re-used the stock main bolts! I hope the crank doesn't fall out.
ALOT of people re-use them. More than once even.
ALOT of people re-use them. More than once even.
12-13-2003, 12:50 PM
#17
Originally Posted by 4mulaJoe
There must be alot of stupid engine builders in Houston building motors for racecars.
sounds like it........again......this is
......do what YOU want..........you just need to learn not to get all butthurt when someone thinks what your doing/saying is stupid..... Last edited by 2001CamaroGuy; 12-13-2003 at 01:16 PM.
12-13-2003, 07:30 PM
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Originally Posted by Bizzzatch350
And this why your destined for 12.9@110 for eternity
I agree with 2001CamaroGuy on this....just because others are doing it doesn't mean it's completely safe.
You've gone the far....spend the extra few bucks and do it right...if anything for piece of mind.
12-13-2003, 08:15 PM
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Torque to yield head bolts
Torque to yield (TTY) bolts, also commonly referred to as angle torque or stretch bolts, are used in many of today's modern engines predominantly for cylinder head bolts but also main bearing and big end caps.
Compared to conventional type bolts, TTY bolts offer the engine manufacturer a number of advantages including greater flexibility of design, reductions in component costs, more accurate assembly and reliability of seal. Engines designed utilising TTY head bolts require fewer head bolts to achieve the desired clamping loads then those using conventional bolts. With fewer bolts the engine manufacturer has more flexibility in cylinder head and block design as well as reducing the cost of the engine.
Whilst TTY bolts are attractive to the engine manufacturer, there are disadvantages to the engine repairer. For the most of us it would be unthinkable to replace a conventional head bolt unless the bolt was damaged, i.e. stripped threads, the bolt head was rounded off, the shank was severely corroded or pitted.
Conventional head bolts simply just did not wear out. Torque to yield head bolts however, by the very nature of their design, do wear out and should NEVER be reused.
Torque to yield (TTY) bolts, also commonly referred to as angle torque or stretch bolts, are used in many of today's modern engines predominantly for cylinder head bolts but also main bearing and big end caps.
Compared to conventional type bolts, TTY bolts offer the engine manufacturer a number of advantages including greater flexibility of design, reductions in component costs, more accurate assembly and reliability of seal. Engines designed utilising TTY head bolts require fewer head bolts to achieve the desired clamping loads then those using conventional bolts. With fewer bolts the engine manufacturer has more flexibility in cylinder head and block design as well as reducing the cost of the engine.
Whilst TTY bolts are attractive to the engine manufacturer, there are disadvantages to the engine repairer. For the most of us it would be unthinkable to replace a conventional head bolt unless the bolt was damaged, i.e. stripped threads, the bolt head was rounded off, the shank was severely corroded or pitted.
Conventional head bolts simply just did not wear out. Torque to yield head bolts however, by the very nature of their design, do wear out and should NEVER be reused.
