iroc_385z

** Mods: Feel free to move me if you'd like, I just figured this was the best place to get some positive feedback **

I'm posting in the Gen III forum because over time I've come to realize that you LSx guys here seem to really know your chite when it comes to valvetrain.

I've got a Gen 1 385ci stroker running Sportsman II heads that came with '1.437'' (dual) Valve Springs, .600'' Max Lift for Solid/Hyd. Roller'. Last time I had the heads worked over the guy also installed spring locator's, then telling me that my max safe lift was .575". At the time that didn't matter because I wasn't running much over .540" and the lobes weren't all that aggressive (Comp XE 230/236).

A couple of seasons ago I got my hands on an XFI (224/232 or something like that) cam for an LT4 and stuffed it in, using 1.5/1.52 rockers which kept me around .545". I know that cam was 'designed' to be used with comp behives, and in looking at the monstrous lobes I could see why it needs more spring, but so far I haven't noticed any obvious problems...so far...

Well now I find myself more interested in the valvetrain, in an effort to get that extra last bit out of my combo. On the list are Lunati 1.65rrs to get me closer to .600 lift. The guy who did my heads said they would 'really wake up' if I bump up my lift. My question to you is about spring selection: I've seen mention of these Patriot Gold spring kits for ~$300, but the deal seems too good to be true. A complete dual spring setup with TITANIUM retainers, for the same price as most titanium retainers alone!?? Aside from that they seem to be LSx springs, leading to my second question: Does anybody know if the Gen 1 and Gen 3 springs are identical/interchangeable?

Lastly, just for the sake of discussion: The RPM band for these cams seems to be advertised from like 1500-5800 (guesstimating here), yet in my motor this damn thing wants to keep on going strong past 7000 (not that I spin up that high often, but excitement has gotten the better of me a couple times). Thoughts on that?

Any input is much appreciated, and if my post out of line for this particular forum I apologize.

Nick

iroc_385z

Any valvetrain guys out there?

JPH

iTrader: (2)

Find some spring locators/cups (that will fit your head and springs) and retainers/locks(that will fit the springs you want to use, and your valve stem) and set them up properly, and you should be fine. I have used comp #977-16 springs on XFI lobes before with no issues. Have you tried calling comp cams, or PAC racing, K-Motion, etc... about it and see what they say?

Beau@SDPC

iTrader: (14)

You need a retainer and lock to work with the SBC valve stem dia. None of those kits will work unless they have that. Esp the Patriot kit. One of the more popular swaps is the LS6 spring (or pac or anything else like a beehive) with the comp retainer and locks made to work with the 5/16 stem. they are so popular amongst the roundy round guys that we keep some on hand.

Also just because the LS series of engines are a "GenIII" small block, means nothing. They have nothing in common with the earlier small blocks.

iroc_385z

Not even bore spacing? ;-)

I understand the differences, but being that: A) The XFI lobes seem to be more targeted for later model EFI engines, B) Those patriot springs also seem to be marketed more for LS motors (and I still would like to know if anyone has any input, good or bad, about their products), and C) I've just noticed overall better answers to camshaft/valvetrain-type questions from LS guys...that's why I brought it up here.

Beau@SDPC

iTrader: (14)

Well i would use one of the Pac springs like the 1218 and use the steel or ti locks and steel retainers for the beehive. keep valvetrain weight down and have some fun. they have enough spring pressure to keep the valves in line.

iroc_385z

No, I kinda wanted honest end-user opinions about those patriot springs/retainers. Just under $300 for aftermarket springs AND titanium retainers seems hokey to me...when Comp will sell that stuff for a couple hundred for each.

Beau@SDPC

iTrader: (14)

kinda hokey? we sell them every day. we sell alot more of them than we do the COMP spring kits. they are a very good spring. so much so that we offer them on most of our top of the line heads.

USArmyZ28

iTrader: (3)

Patriot spring user here and have had 0 problems daily driving a rather large cam.

iroc_385z

https://www.patriot-performance.com/...&cat=52&page=2

That is the kit I am talking about. Comparing that price to just comp titanium retainers alone is my only basis for questioning their un-hokeyness, if you will :-)

Beau@SDPC

iTrader: (14)

o ok. well being specific like that helps. Well here is the deal. When you sell as many retainers as they do every day and it is one of your top selling products, prices go down. Esp if you are closer to the actual manuf of the product than another company is.

They work very well. Nothing hokey about that. If it were Pro Comp (not competition cams) stuff i would ask you to please reform your style of thinking, but you are on the right track.

iroc_385z

Thank you John, that is the kind of information I was looking for.

So just to be clear: Assuming the locks/retainers are the correct diameter for my stems, and the locator is the correct size to fit around the guide, then I should be A-OK with the kit in my link?

Beau@SDPC

iTrader: (14)

you betcha!!!!

I like the idea of the single conical, but use what you may.

iroc_385z

If I could find a kit for that price I would too :-) The logic behind them makes much better sense, plus I'm starting to understand that weight plays a big role too. I'm still learning about valvetrains in general, so if you sense ignorance in my thinking please don't hesitate to explain things that may seem basic to you. For instance It didn't even occur to me that the valve stem was a different diameter...which now makes me wonder if the length of the stem is different too? Either way I think I'm OK with that particular kit as it is under the SBC listing, but I learned long ago that it's the little things that get you so now I try to ask first.

And here's another random question: Can I run solid roller lifters on the lobes of my hydraulic roller camshaft (adjusting lash and losing the factory lifter retainers aside)?

Beau@SDPC

iTrader: (14)

Not a good idea on the solid roller lifters on the hyd cam.

On the other kit...I can put one together. Just say the word.

iroc_385z

Thank you John I appreciate that. If that happens this year it will likely be in the summer or fall... I've got gears and a posi rebuild, then enjoying my car for once in a long time, to worry about first :-)

Beau@SDPC

iTrader: (14)

Dont work too hard. It can become habit forming.