Oil soaking lifters???
02-26-2010, 02:15 PM
#61
Soak them, tighten to zero lash, then add your preload. Kurt can chime in on this if he'd like, but it's something like 1 1/4 turn to 1 3/4 turns (I'd have to check my notes from the last time I did this to be sure on the number) past zero lash before the bolt bottoms out (gets torqued). This is also assuming you picked the right length pushrods. Soaking the rockers overnight WILL NOT cause problems on initial startup.
Last edited by ryarbrough; 02-26-2010 at 02:29 PM.
02-26-2010, 02:24 PM
#62
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FWIW, EVERY cam install I have done using the LS7 lifter with a cam with greater than .600" lift (read smaller base circle) AND stock heads w/GM MLS gaskets has taken 7.425" pushrods for ~.050"-.060" preload. We measure lifter preload on each and every cam install we do. I have never had a lifter failure nor do we end up with the dreaded "sewing machine" noise.
Its very simple, If you change ANY of the following:
valve sizes, valve job, head milling, thinner/thicker head gaskets, decked block, cam with an altered base circle, etc... YOU MUST CHECK FOR PROPER PUSHROD LENGTH.
I have helped countless numbers of individuals with this process over the phone, via email, and PM's. I've posted the process on at least 3 occasions.
Here it is again in a nutshell:
1. Using the EO/IC method, get the lifter to the base circle of the cam.
2. Using a known length pushrod (7.400" is a good start with stock rockers) run the rocker arm bolt down to zero lash. This is easily done with your fingers "wiggling" the rocker, the point at which the "slack" is just gone is zero lash.
3. Set your torque wrench to 22 lb./ft. Tighten the rocker to full torque and count the number of turns it takes to get there. 1 full turn wtih a stock 8mm X 1.25 bolt is ~.047" preload as measured at the pushrod/rocker interface.
4. I normally shoot for 1 1/4 to 1 3/4 turns with stock type lifters like Comp 850's, LS1, LS7 etc.
For an example, if you use a 7.400" pushrod and come up with 3/4 of a turn, you will need at least .025" longer pushrod to get into range. If you end up with 2 1/4 turns, you will need one .025" shorter...
I might not know everything but I will tell you that this method has worked for me year after year cam swap after cam swap. We average 3 cam swaps a week here so you can do the math.
If you are not familiar with the EO/IC method for determining valve events in a 4 stroke engine, its very simple:
For a given cylinder as the Exhaust valve is Opening, the intake lifter will be on the base circle of the cam and lash/preload should be checked for that intake valve.
For a given cylinder as the Intake valve is Closing, the exhaust lifter will be on the base circle of the cam and lash/preload should be checked for that exhaust valve.
THIS METHOD ALWAYS WORKS!!!
I hope this helps someone. I have explained it so many times I think I do it in my sleep!!!
Shane
Its very simple, If you change ANY of the following:
valve sizes, valve job, head milling, thinner/thicker head gaskets, decked block, cam with an altered base circle, etc... YOU MUST CHECK FOR PROPER PUSHROD LENGTH.
I have helped countless numbers of individuals with this process over the phone, via email, and PM's. I've posted the process on at least 3 occasions.
Here it is again in a nutshell:
1. Using the EO/IC method, get the lifter to the base circle of the cam.
2. Using a known length pushrod (7.400" is a good start with stock rockers) run the rocker arm bolt down to zero lash. This is easily done with your fingers "wiggling" the rocker, the point at which the "slack" is just gone is zero lash.
3. Set your torque wrench to 22 lb./ft. Tighten the rocker to full torque and count the number of turns it takes to get there. 1 full turn wtih a stock 8mm X 1.25 bolt is ~.047" preload as measured at the pushrod/rocker interface.
4. I normally shoot for 1 1/4 to 1 3/4 turns with stock type lifters like Comp 850's, LS1, LS7 etc.
For an example, if you use a 7.400" pushrod and come up with 3/4 of a turn, you will need at least .025" longer pushrod to get into range. If you end up with 2 1/4 turns, you will need one .025" shorter...
I might not know everything but I will tell you that this method has worked for me year after year cam swap after cam swap. We average 3 cam swaps a week here so you can do the math.
If you are not familiar with the EO/IC method for determining valve events in a 4 stroke engine, its very simple:
For a given cylinder as the Exhaust valve is Opening, the intake lifter will be on the base circle of the cam and lash/preload should be checked for that intake valve.
For a given cylinder as the Intake valve is Closing, the exhaust lifter will be on the base circle of the cam and lash/preload should be checked for that exhaust valve.
THIS METHOD ALWAYS WORKS!!!
I hope this helps someone. I have explained it so many times I think I do it in my sleep!!!
Shane
02-26-2010, 02:33 PM
#64
Here is a pdf file for a GM service book for LQ4/9. It says to lube them along with the bores. It does not say to presoak them like non-roller lifters. I been told both ways though. http://www.pleasurecraft.com/manuals/L510016.pdf
02-26-2010, 02:42 PM
#65
I just got off the phone with a rep from MOREL( they make lifters for just about every company worth a **** and they said soaking is personal preference and could only help with lubrication. I emplore you to call them. I'm pretty confident in their knowledge seeing as they, NOT CRANE OR OTHERS make these....
Not taking this thread any further seeing as you can't see your opinion is not shared with the majority of us on this topic. The OP asked for opinions. You decided to take your opinion or "preference" further and argue with others whom have been following this procedure for years with success. You aren't going to win. Let this thread die. There are no "facts" to be found pertaining to soaking or not soaking besides the fact that oil alone will not interfere with valve lash adjustment.
Last edited by 355TurboLT1; 02-26-2010 at 02:51 PM.
02-26-2010, 11:08 PM
#67
WOw......It hard to beileve you guys actually work on your engines and you don't know how the lifters work!
A hydraulic valve lifter has four distinct parts, the check ball mechanism, body, socket and plunger. The plunger and socket move along with the push rod, and the body moves in conjunction with the cam. Riding in between the plunger and the socket is a spring and an oil cushion. The hydraulic valve lifter is pressurized by the oil gallery right at the start of motion in the engine. The pressure from the oil is only just enough to remove whatever clearance there is in the valve train, but not enough to actually open the hydraulic valve itself. The cam pushes on the hydraulic valve lifter's body in order to actually open the valve. The spring holds the check ball in its place, and the hydraulic valve lifter's motion opens the check ball cavit,y leaving the check ball behind, but only for a second or so. Then, the cam pushes the hydraulic valve lifter body forward, and the push rod holds the plunger in place while the check ball cavity gets smaller. The check ball is held in place by the support spring, and oil pressure in the cavity forces the check ball to move forward, and that closes the check ball cavity. This traps oil in the check ball cavity and makes the plunger assembly move with the hydraulic valve lifter body, and then that moves the push rod and opens the hydraulic valve. The oil pressure inside the check ball cavity prevents the spring inside from compressing further. The cam then finishes its rotation, and the spring makes the hydraulic valve lifter body go back to the rest position on the base circle of the cam. The check ball isn't under a lot of pressure then and is ready to be shoved into the spring by the oil pressure, which lets in oil into the check ball cavity and starts the whole cycle again.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lorANZ1Tptw look and learn
A hydraulic valve lifter has four distinct parts, the check ball mechanism, body, socket and plunger. The plunger and socket move along with the push rod, and the body moves in conjunction with the cam. Riding in between the plunger and the socket is a spring and an oil cushion. The hydraulic valve lifter is pressurized by the oil gallery right at the start of motion in the engine. The pressure from the oil is only just enough to remove whatever clearance there is in the valve train, but not enough to actually open the hydraulic valve itself. The cam pushes on the hydraulic valve lifter's body in order to actually open the valve. The spring holds the check ball in its place, and the hydraulic valve lifter's motion opens the check ball cavit,y leaving the check ball behind, but only for a second or so. Then, the cam pushes the hydraulic valve lifter body forward, and the push rod holds the plunger in place while the check ball cavity gets smaller. The check ball is held in place by the support spring, and oil pressure in the cavity forces the check ball to move forward, and that closes the check ball cavity. This traps oil in the check ball cavity and makes the plunger assembly move with the hydraulic valve lifter body, and then that moves the push rod and opens the hydraulic valve. The oil pressure inside the check ball cavity prevents the spring inside from compressing further. The cam then finishes its rotation, and the spring makes the hydraulic valve lifter body go back to the rest position on the base circle of the cam. The check ball isn't under a lot of pressure then and is ready to be shoved into the spring by the oil pressure, which lets in oil into the check ball cavity and starts the whole cycle again.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lorANZ1Tptw look and learn
Last edited by O2Form; 02-26-2010 at 11:18 PM.
05-02-2021, 12:07 AM
#71
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so when you soak a lift it fills it with oil and when the push rod goes in it will pump that lifter making it very hard so you won’t be able to set preload on the valves can bend a push rod plus the preload can be off install everything and prime with oil after you can run a pump with oil and wait for it to fill everything you will see it come out the top of the push rods by the valves
05-02-2021, 01:09 AM
#72
so when you soak a lift it fills it with oil and when the push rod goes in it will pump that lifter making it very hard so you won’t be able to set preload on the valves can bend a push rod plus the preload can be off install everything and prime with oil after you can run a pump with oil and wait for it to fill everything you will see it come out the top of the push rods by the valves
Why do new members always dig up these old posts ? lol
Last edited by LLLosingit; 05-02-2021 at 01:35 AM.
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05-02-2021, 07:01 PM
#74
TECH Senior Member
so when you soak a lift it fills it with oil and when the push rod goes in it will pump that lifter making it very hard so you won’t be able to set preload on the valves can bend a push rod plus the preload can be off install everything and prime with oil after you can run a pump with oil and wait for it to fill everything you will see it come out the top of the push rods by the valves
Last edited by joecar; 05-02-2021 at 07:21 PM.
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05-10-2022, 09:31 AM
#75
Yes I would ALWAYS CLEAN ENGINE COMPONENTS before assembly/useage!
Treat your engine like your body. Would you buy chicken from the grocery store and not wash it before you cook or eat it?
---On a serious note though...Keep all engine components sterile. No matter how expensive or inexpensive...it's just good practice. Your oil pump and filter will also thank you.
Treat your engine like your body. Would you buy chicken from the grocery store and not wash it before you cook or eat it?
---On a serious note though...Keep all engine components sterile. No matter how expensive or inexpensive...it's just good practice. Your oil pump and filter will also thank you.
05-10-2022, 09:46 AM
#76
ALWAYS CLEAN ENGINE COMPONENTS before assembly/useage!
Treat your engine like your body. Would you buy chicken from the grocery store and not wash it before you cook or eat it?
---On a serious note though...Keep all engine components sterile. No matter how expensive or inexpensive...it's just good practice. Your oil pump and filter will also thank you.
Treat your engine like your body. Would you buy chicken from the grocery store and not wash it before you cook or eat it?
---On a serious note though...Keep all engine components sterile. No matter how expensive or inexpensive...it's just good practice. Your oil pump and filter will also thank you.
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G Atsma (05-10-2022)
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bbond105 (05-10-2022)
05-10-2022, 09:54 PM
#78
TECH Senior Member
05-13-2022, 09:56 AM
#79
For anyone reading this that is actually curious about soaking
This is straight from Comp Cams
“Pre-soaking” hydraulic lifters in a bath of engine oil is a good idea but not mandatory. Doing so ensures that the lifters are adequately lubricated on their outer surfaces prior to installation. It may also result in a quieter engine start up as the oil in the bath may displace some air from the lifter’s plunger reservoir
This is straight from Comp Cams
“Pre-soaking” hydraulic lifters in a bath of engine oil is a good idea but not mandatory. Doing so ensures that the lifters are adequately lubricated on their outer surfaces prior to installation. It may also result in a quieter engine start up as the oil in the bath may displace some air from the lifter’s plunger reservoir
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99 Black Bird T/A (05-14-2022), bbond105 (05-13-2022)
