patriot dual gold springs install help.
01-11-2011, 09:27 PM
#1
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patriot dual gold springs install help. i would like some insite on installing springs. i know how to compress them remove locks etc, but once you install new ones how do you know theyre installed correctly? i believe what im refering to is installed height. how do you achieve this? is it even neccessary on the ls1? im a stickler for details so feel free to go into depth.
if it makes a difference i plan on using these on a brand new ls6 crate motor in conjunction with thunder racings raptr camshaft 236/242 - .615/.615 - 111 lsa
thanks guys
if it makes a difference i plan on using these on a brand new ls6 crate motor in conjunction with thunder racings raptr camshaft 236/242 - .615/.615 - 111 lsa
thanks guys
01-11-2011, 10:47 PM
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"Installed height" is checked with a special micrometer that is desiged to take the place of the spring.
You run the mic "down" till you can put it on and install the retainer and keepers then slowly run it "up" till you remove all of the clearance. Take a reading from that point.
If you have too much installed height you can add shims to reduce it.
If it's too tight you have to add clearance:
Remove shims if extras already exist (not applicable to new crate engine).
Purchase retainers that have been designed for a taller installed height.
Purchase keepers that have the groove at a different spot (not sure if these are avail for LS engines yet-they are avail for SBC/BBC).
Or the more common method is to have the spring seats in the head machined down. (messy-best done by the machine shop with the heads off of the engine)
Installed height can be what I call a super-critical measurement. A mistake here could destory thousands of dollars of effort at initial start up. Deal killer deluxe-on any engine, LS series included.
If you were running a .615 cam on springs rated for .650 lift@1.800 installed height and your actual real life installed height was 1.700 you might have a serious problem.
Most spring/retainer kits are speced out for OEM valve length/spring pocket depth and you are probably fine. Checking to MAKE SURE is never a bad idea IMO.
Where you end up running into trouble usually involves a mismatched retainer/spring or non-standard length valves.
The spring checking mics can be had cheap. I think I paid $50 for mine.
If you purchase an inexpensive one have it "verified" at a couple of spots along its measurement range with a know good standard mic.
You run the mic "down" till you can put it on and install the retainer and keepers then slowly run it "up" till you remove all of the clearance. Take a reading from that point.
If you have too much installed height you can add shims to reduce it.
If it's too tight you have to add clearance:
Remove shims if extras already exist (not applicable to new crate engine).
Purchase retainers that have been designed for a taller installed height.
Purchase keepers that have the groove at a different spot (not sure if these are avail for LS engines yet-they are avail for SBC/BBC).
Or the more common method is to have the spring seats in the head machined down. (messy-best done by the machine shop with the heads off of the engine)
Installed height can be what I call a super-critical measurement. A mistake here could destory thousands of dollars of effort at initial start up. Deal killer deluxe-on any engine, LS series included.
If you were running a .615 cam on springs rated for .650 lift@1.800 installed height and your actual real life installed height was 1.700 you might have a serious problem.
Most spring/retainer kits are speced out for OEM valve length/spring pocket depth and you are probably fine. Checking to MAKE SURE is never a bad idea IMO.
Where you end up running into trouble usually involves a mismatched retainer/spring or non-standard length valves.
The spring checking mics can be had cheap. I think I paid $50 for mine.
If you purchase an inexpensive one have it "verified" at a couple of spots along its measurement range with a know good standard mic.
01-11-2011, 11:58 PM
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so basically the installed height is how tall the spring sits when it is installed on the head? and if you dont have enough you could have potential coil bind or ptv clearence issues? is that right?
01-12-2011, 01:05 AM
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Yes.
Yes- and other resultant failures, rocker arm destruction, rocket arm mount being ripped from head, push rod destruction, lifter destruction, possible valve drop due to all this crap happening around the valve spring/retainer.
No, this will not decrease PTV clearance (unless you drop the valve).
Yes- and other resultant failures, rocker arm destruction, rocket arm mount being ripped from head, push rod destruction, lifter destruction, possible valve drop due to all this crap happening around the valve spring/retainer.
No, this will not decrease PTV clearance (unless you drop the valve).
01-12-2011, 06:14 AM
#5
As stated, the installed height will set your seat value for the spring (lbs of force). The cam manufacturer should know the value required but I like to shoot for 135# to 145#. Once you know the installed height you need to attain the required seat value, then you can measure and see what is required to get that height. From there you need to figure out clearance from retainer to the seal, valve open spring clearance (how much stack height is left before you hit coil bind) and your open force.
