My LQ4 engine swap / build thread...witness the debacle
02-11-2011, 10:51 PM
#1
My LQ4 engine swap / build thread...witness the debacle It's finally time. I had to put this engine build and swap off for about 6 months because I got promoted and moved from Alaska to Louisville, KY, but I've finally settled in enough to get down to brass tacks with this build. So let's light this candle.
Car is a 2001 WS.6, 6 speed, SOM. In it's current state, it's a bolt-on car with your typical headers, catted-y, magnaflow, lid, ported tb, 4.10s, etc. I previously had a Procharger setup on the car, but due to an unfortunate combination of too much timing and too much boost I hurt the motor and had blowby coming out the oil filler tube that looked like a damn chimney. So I won't know the extent of the carnage on the stock LS1 until I get it apart, but I feel pretty sure the ringlands are toast. Anyways, long story a little bit shorter, I traded the Procharger setup for a built LQ4 shortblock and some cash.
I bought a set of PRC Stage 2.5 LS6 heads that are 62cc, and had Pat G custom spec me a cam. Cam was ground by EPS, and is .238/.242, .604/.605 on a 112+4. For now I'll be sticking with the Pacesetter LTs and also the LS6 intake, but eventually I hope to go to a FAST setup when I have the coin. Shortblock has a TSP ported oil pump and LS2 timing chain already, and I have new GM stock headgaskets and ARP head bolts ready to go. I'm looking for a LS6 valley cover for it, and some other minor parts to finish up.
I figured this was as good of a time as any to upgrade my clutch, so I bought a Monster Stage 3 for a great price from Lashway. I'll be pulling the engine and trans as a unit, so I couldn't pass up the opportunity to swap clutches while everything was out.
I suppose now is as good a time as any to mention that I'll be pulling the engine and trans from out the top. I debated on this for weeks, but without making this any longer than it already is, I decided out the top was the way to go for me. Will I regret not taking it out the bottom? Knowing my luck, probably. But I felt good about going out the top and rolled with it. Will probably be my demise...
OK, now for the obligatory start pics, or none of you will continue to follow my thread...
Here's the car when I got it. The previous owner took this pic, so don't flame me for the windshield wipers...
And here's the car tonight after I got the hood off with the help of my lovely wife...
The engine bay as it sits now. I'm planning to do the wire mod, and really clean things up in the engine bay and on the LQ4 before it goes in. I'll never get another opportunity to get it as clean as I can now.
So I got off to a decent start tonight. Off came the hood, followed by the lid, lower airbox, MAF, and throttle body. I started feeling really good about myself when I got the radiator out by myself without dinging it up at all. Got the serpentine belt and A/C belt off, and then pulled the water pump. Thought I'd take a shot at the power steering pump, and hit my first mild snag...the bolt directly behind the resevoir that holds the bracket to the head. How in God's name do you get that thing out?! I couldn't get a wrench on it, so I called it a night and came in to do some searching on here.
One other thing...I'm assuming the A/C condensor has to come out before I can get the motor out the top, but for some reason I felt nervous about unbolting the lines that go to it. Do you just unbolt the one bolt that holds the line in and that's it? Or am I missing something?
More to follow tomorrow, complete with pics. I'm in no hurry on this, so it will probably be painfully slow for some of you to follow, but I'll take my time and roll with punches and hopefully do it the right way the first time.
Thanks for following.
Car is a 2001 WS.6, 6 speed, SOM. In it's current state, it's a bolt-on car with your typical headers, catted-y, magnaflow, lid, ported tb, 4.10s, etc. I previously had a Procharger setup on the car, but due to an unfortunate combination of too much timing and too much boost I hurt the motor and had blowby coming out the oil filler tube that looked like a damn chimney. So I won't know the extent of the carnage on the stock LS1 until I get it apart, but I feel pretty sure the ringlands are toast. Anyways, long story a little bit shorter, I traded the Procharger setup for a built LQ4 shortblock and some cash.
I bought a set of PRC Stage 2.5 LS6 heads that are 62cc, and had Pat G custom spec me a cam. Cam was ground by EPS, and is .238/.242, .604/.605 on a 112+4. For now I'll be sticking with the Pacesetter LTs and also the LS6 intake, but eventually I hope to go to a FAST setup when I have the coin. Shortblock has a TSP ported oil pump and LS2 timing chain already, and I have new GM stock headgaskets and ARP head bolts ready to go. I'm looking for a LS6 valley cover for it, and some other minor parts to finish up.
I figured this was as good of a time as any to upgrade my clutch, so I bought a Monster Stage 3 for a great price from Lashway. I'll be pulling the engine and trans as a unit, so I couldn't pass up the opportunity to swap clutches while everything was out.
I suppose now is as good a time as any to mention that I'll be pulling the engine and trans from out the top. I debated on this for weeks, but without making this any longer than it already is, I decided out the top was the way to go for me. Will I regret not taking it out the bottom? Knowing my luck, probably. But I felt good about going out the top and rolled with it. Will probably be my demise...
OK, now for the obligatory start pics, or none of you will continue to follow my thread...
Here's the car when I got it. The previous owner took this pic, so don't flame me for the windshield wipers...
And here's the car tonight after I got the hood off with the help of my lovely wife...
The engine bay as it sits now. I'm planning to do the wire mod, and really clean things up in the engine bay and on the LQ4 before it goes in. I'll never get another opportunity to get it as clean as I can now.
So I got off to a decent start tonight. Off came the hood, followed by the lid, lower airbox, MAF, and throttle body. I started feeling really good about myself when I got the radiator out by myself without dinging it up at all. Got the serpentine belt and A/C belt off, and then pulled the water pump. Thought I'd take a shot at the power steering pump, and hit my first mild snag...the bolt directly behind the resevoir that holds the bracket to the head. How in God's name do you get that thing out?! I couldn't get a wrench on it, so I called it a night and came in to do some searching on here.
One other thing...I'm assuming the A/C condensor has to come out before I can get the motor out the top, but for some reason I felt nervous about unbolting the lines that go to it. Do you just unbolt the one bolt that holds the line in and that's it? Or am I missing something?
More to follow tomorrow, complete with pics. I'm in no hurry on this, so it will probably be painfully slow for some of you to follow, but I'll take my time and roll with punches and hopefully do it the right way the first time.
Thanks for following.
Last edited by -Q-; 07-21-2011 at 10:13 AM.
02-12-2011, 01:21 AM
#3
I don't have the answers you need, but I am following this thread. I'm interested to see how it goes for you taking the engine out the top.
I am about to drop a LQ4(408) in my camaro. I'll see how it pans out for you going out the top. I've only heard of everyone dropping it out the bottom.
Good luck and keep us posted.
I am about to drop a LQ4(408) in my camaro. I'll see how it pans out for you going out the top. I've only heard of everyone dropping it out the bottom.
Good luck and keep us posted.
02-12-2011, 01:36 AM
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As for the p/s pump, the reservoir is usually just held on with some metal clips that you can pry off and then remove the reservoir to get to those bolts you mentioned, suck the reservoir out first if possible as to not make a huge mess. Not sure if there is any other way to remove them or not, im more of a truck guy and they have a bracket that can be removed with the pump staying on it.As for the a/c, has the system been evacuated? if not then you have to have that done. there is quite alot of pressure in the system so just cracking a line is not a good idea, also its a huge fine and against the law if you get caught. if the system is empty then yes just the one bolt in the lines will have to be removed and the line will come off, there sealed with a rubber/metal gasket so dont lose those. be super careful to not bend or twist the condensor as they are pretty fragile. hope any of this helps.
02-12-2011, 01:50 AM
#5
If it's at all possible, I'd highly recommend you attempt to drop the motor/trans/k-member (as a single unit) from the bottom. I've only seen it done through the top once; why not just use a cherry picker to raise the front end of the chassis up (via the radiator support)? Seems like the a considerably easier approach. Just make sure the rearend is supported and all horizonal movement is prevented.
This would also make re-installation much easier (esp when attempting to align the k-member/motor mount bolts).
This would also make re-installation much easier (esp when attempting to align the k-member/motor mount bolts).
02-12-2011, 08:15 AM
#6
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I've seen posts about what it takes to get the ps pump off, Have never taken one off a LS myself. It seems you will have a small amount of "throw" for a wrench on one side. loosen/remove the other bolts then loosen the bad one a bit, move the pump and braket out, loosen some more, move pump out and so on. What i read gave me the impression that you were removing the bracket with the pump. Do a bit of searching....
For the AC, no need to have it evac-ed unless you have an evac machine close that you can use for free. Loosen a fitting a bit then "wiggle"it until you can hear pressure escaping. R134 is cheap (compared to r12) and anyone can buy it. Do this with plenty of ventilation. The 134 can displace the O2 in the room and cause you problems. The interntion here is to slowly leak it out over 15-30 min. Get it "hissing" and go do something else...
Should you want to try and save your accumulator. find "plugs" that will seal the openings and toss it in your refridgerator. This will reduce/eliminate moisture intrusion but your wife may NOT agree!
Good luck
Nice car!
For the AC, no need to have it evac-ed unless you have an evac machine close that you can use for free. Loosen a fitting a bit then "wiggle"it until you can hear pressure escaping. R134 is cheap (compared to r12) and anyone can buy it. Do this with plenty of ventilation. The 134 can displace the O2 in the room and cause you problems. The interntion here is to slowly leak it out over 15-30 min. Get it "hissing" and go do something else...
Should you want to try and save your accumulator. find "plugs" that will seal the openings and toss it in your refridgerator. This will reduce/eliminate moisture intrusion but your wife may NOT agree!
Good luck
Nice car!
02-12-2011, 08:20 AM
#7
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02-12-2011, 08:24 AM
#8
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As for the p/s pump, the reservoir is usually just held on with some metal clips that you can pry off and then remove the reservoir to get to those bolts you mentioned, suck the reservoir out first if possible as to not make a huge mess. Not sure if there is any other way to remove them or not, im more of a truck guy and they have a bracket that can be removed with the pump staying on it.As for the a/c, has the system been evacuated? if not then you have to have that done. there is quite alot of pressure in the system so just cracking a line is not a good idea, also its a huge fine and against the law if you get caught. if the system is empty then yes just the one bolt in the lines will have to be removed and the line will come off, there sealed with a rubber/metal gasket so dont lose those. be super careful to not bend or twist the condensor as they are pretty fragile. hope any of this helps.
Doing the LQ4 swap definitely falls under these laws......
02-12-2011, 08:41 AM
#9
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Out the bottom may be easier, but through the top is fine. Hell, I didn't even take off my hood.
If you take the motor mount pedestals out (at least the pass side) just before you're ready to pull it, it will make your life a lot easier.
I had the car about 2 1/2 feet high on big blocks of wood under the tires. This was the optimum height for me to get at everything top and bottom and still get the cherry picker into the bay. I tried it on huge jackstands first, but was bumping them with the picker feet/wheels. For the top work, I sat on the fenders and front apron with my feet in the engine compartment.
The A/C condensor CAN stay in the car, but there's a good chance of boogering it up. The in/out dryer hoses are the biggest obstacles. If you DO leave it in, you'll need to remove the balancer to get your clearance on the way out.
I layered big chunks of cardboard around everything I didn't want to damage with duct tape. And finally 3 big old comforters, One for the nose and one for each fender area. The car was wrapped like a big 'ol padded mummy. This way, when you're laying and contorting your body in upsidedown and sideways positions and crawling in and out of the engine bay, you and the car can stay bruise and scratch free.
If you take the motor mount pedestals out (at least the pass side) just before you're ready to pull it, it will make your life a lot easier.
I had the car about 2 1/2 feet high on big blocks of wood under the tires. This was the optimum height for me to get at everything top and bottom and still get the cherry picker into the bay. I tried it on huge jackstands first, but was bumping them with the picker feet/wheels. For the top work, I sat on the fenders and front apron with my feet in the engine compartment.
The A/C condensor CAN stay in the car, but there's a good chance of boogering it up. The in/out dryer hoses are the biggest obstacles. If you DO leave it in, you'll need to remove the balancer to get your clearance on the way out.
I layered big chunks of cardboard around everything I didn't want to damage with duct tape. And finally 3 big old comforters, One for the nose and one for each fender area. The car was wrapped like a big 'ol padded mummy. This way, when you're laying and contorting your body in upsidedown and sideways positions and crawling in and out of the engine bay, you and the car can stay bruise and scratch free.
Last edited by Steve Gunn; 02-12-2011 at 09:20 AM.
02-12-2011, 10:18 AM
#10
Thanks for the advice everyone. I'm going to give it a shot leaving the condensor in...I'll just bust out the breaker bar and pull the balancer off and hope that gives me enough clearance. I read up a little on the condensor situation last night and was glad I didn't try to screw with it yet. I'll pull it as a last resort, but I'm optimistic I can do it with it in there...
I'll take another crack at the PS pump bracket today. I have all the bolts off except one, so if I can wiggle it forward at all, I'll be able to get it out of there slowly. I imagine going back in will be a challenge, though.
I know it's a huge debate, going out the bottom vs going out the top. I see pros and cons to both. That said, I'm giving it a shot going out the top. I may regret it later, but hey, this car is a toy, not my daily driver, and I've got nothing but time at this point.
I'll take another crack at the PS pump bracket today. I have all the bolts off except one, so if I can wiggle it forward at all, I'll be able to get it out of there slowly. I imagine going back in will be a challenge, though.
I know it's a huge debate, going out the bottom vs going out the top. I see pros and cons to both. That said, I'm giving it a shot going out the top. I may regret it later, but hey, this car is a toy, not my daily driver, and I've got nothing but time at this point.
02-12-2011, 08:34 PM
#11
OK, so I made some decent progress today. I only had a few hours I was able to work on it, so I feel pretty good about what I was able to get done. I got that PS pump pulled right off the bat, but it was pretty slow going trying to get an open-ended wrench behind the resevoir to get that last bolt off. Dropped the alternator no problem, and moved on to the balancer. Got a little hung up there...the three arm puller I had just wasn't working, so I'm either going to have to take a shot at pulling it with the balancer still on, or go pick up another puller (which I'll probably do).
Got the AC dropped no problems, and moved on to the intake. Somehow during the move I managed to lose my set of fuel line fittings to remove the fuel line, so the intake is just pulled off to the side for now. I'll pick up another set tomorrow.
At this point, here's where I'm at...
I was going to call it a night, but seeing those coils and plug wires still sitting on there was bugging me, so I tore into it. Having the intake off made getting to all those coil bracket bolts a hell of a lot easier. Plus, 10mm ratcheting wrench FTW!
Here's the pile of parts I've accumulated so far. Note the labelled plastic baggies with all my bolts!
And one last pic of the stablemates watching intently...
Tomorrow I'll go ahead and pull that oil pressure sending unit, get the intake all the way off, and maybe the balancer, too. I'll go ahead and finish pulling all the grounds and small stuff up top as well. Then I have to decide whether to pull the heads or not, but I'm leaning towards pulling them just for the extra clearance (especially if I try to pull it with the balancer on there). Plus I'm dying to get a look down in the cylinder bores to see if there's any visible carnage in there. Then it's under the car to start getting things ready there.
Got the AC dropped no problems, and moved on to the intake. Somehow during the move I managed to lose my set of fuel line fittings to remove the fuel line, so the intake is just pulled off to the side for now. I'll pick up another set tomorrow.
At this point, here's where I'm at...
I was going to call it a night, but seeing those coils and plug wires still sitting on there was bugging me, so I tore into it. Having the intake off made getting to all those coil bracket bolts a hell of a lot easier. Plus, 10mm ratcheting wrench FTW!
Here's the pile of parts I've accumulated so far. Note the labelled plastic baggies with all my bolts!
And one last pic of the stablemates watching intently...
Tomorrow I'll go ahead and pull that oil pressure sending unit, get the intake all the way off, and maybe the balancer, too. I'll go ahead and finish pulling all the grounds and small stuff up top as well. Then I have to decide whether to pull the heads or not, but I'm leaning towards pulling them just for the extra clearance (especially if I try to pull it with the balancer on there). Plus I'm dying to get a look down in the cylinder bores to see if there's any visible carnage in there. Then it's under the car to start getting things ready there.
02-13-2011, 09:01 PM
#12
The car owned me today. I spent a freaking hour trying to get my lame *** fuel line quick disconnect tool to work, before finally giving up and going to Advance and buying the metal tool...which took all of 5 seconds to work once I got home. I finally got the intake out of the way and started unbolting the passenger side header and head, which I knew would be tougher than the drivers side. Some of those head bolts were stuck in there but good, and fought me every bit of the way. I almost have the passenger side head pulled, but had to stop early again. Hopefully I'll get farther tomorrow. Some days your're the bug, and some days you're the windshield...
I also ordered some poly motor and trans mounts last night. Figured it will be a great time to do the motor mounts, and might as well do the trans mount while I'm in there.
I also ordered some poly motor and trans mounts last night. Figured it will be a great time to do the motor mounts, and might as well do the trans mount while I'm in there.
02-15-2011, 07:28 PM
#17
Thanks for the feedback, guys. I appreciate it. Hopefully this thread might help someone out doing the same thing down the road.
I really don't know what to expect for power out of this combo. It's an M6 through the stock 10 bolt, but I also know that the LS6 intake and no underdrive pulley is going to hold me back. Hoping for 450ish...
I did a little on the car tonight, but nothing of major significance. Pulled the valley cover and removed the oil pressure sending unit. I was expecting it to be difficult to get that sending unit out without the right size wrench (all of mine were too small), but I clamped down a set of vice grips and it loosened up quite easily.
Crawled under the car and removed the starter, as well as all the grounds going to the block and disconnected all the electrical harnesses from the front of the motor all the way back to the rear of the trans. Not difficult, but time consuming. Tomorrow I'll start unbolting the torque arm and trans mount, remove the driveshaft, and get the motor mounts unbolted and ready for the pull.
I really don't know what to expect for power out of this combo. It's an M6 through the stock 10 bolt, but I also know that the LS6 intake and no underdrive pulley is going to hold me back. Hoping for 450ish...
I did a little on the car tonight, but nothing of major significance. Pulled the valley cover and removed the oil pressure sending unit. I was expecting it to be difficult to get that sending unit out without the right size wrench (all of mine were too small), but I clamped down a set of vice grips and it loosened up quite easily.
Crawled under the car and removed the starter, as well as all the grounds going to the block and disconnected all the electrical harnesses from the front of the motor all the way back to the rear of the trans. Not difficult, but time consuming. Tomorrow I'll start unbolting the torque arm and trans mount, remove the driveshaft, and get the motor mounts unbolted and ready for the pull.
02-15-2011, 08:20 PM
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Hello there , take it from someone that has done this many times , first of all don't unbolt any A/C lines , all You have to do is remove the compressor from the engine and with the lines all intact move it off to the side for the duration of You're build . Wire the compressor to the fender or hood hinge , or You can also remove the condensor as well and hang them both over the passenger side fender on top of a blanket , but You don't need to remove the condensor to remove the engine/trans combo . By far , the easier way is out the top . Once everything is unbolted and ready to remove , with hoist raise 2 or 3" then forward , then raise , then forward until it's about 3" from the condensor at which point You will while raising engine hold the tranny end down until the oil pan clears the radiator support , the n forward until the tranny tail housing clears the firewall . Installation in reverse of removal , it's not hard at all . You can't get a socket with an impact swivel on the bolt behind resevior ? Please do not vent refrigerant into our air . Thanx and good luck .
02-15-2011, 09:15 PM
#19
Hello there , take it from someone that has done this many times , first of all don't unbolt any A/C lines , all You have to do is remove the compressor from the engine and with the lines all intact move it off to the side for the duration of You're build . Wire the compressor to the fender or hood hinge , or You can also remove the condensor as well and hang them both over the passenger side fender on top of a blanket , but You don't need to remove the condensor to remove the engine/trans combo . By far , the easier way is out the top . Once everything is unbolted and ready to remove , with hoist raise 2 or 3" then forward , then raise , then forward until it's about 3" from the condensor at which point You will while raising engine hold the tranny end down until the oil pan clears the radiator support , the n forward until the tranny tail housing clears the firewall . Installation in reverse of removal , it's not hard at all . You can't get a socket with an impact swivel on the bolt behind resevior ? Please do not vent refrigerant into our air . Thanx and good luck .