black00ssFL

iTrader: (24)

Ok, I finally got my used shortblock in the car yesterday and tried to fire her over for the first time and had some horrible noise. Here's the run down of what I did, some mistakes included.

Didn't soak lifters in oil (they were used and didn't know I had to, but now read that I should have)

Assembled engine on a stand, fairly certain oil pump o ring is not pinched

after installed, I pulled fuel pump relay to turn engine over without starting. However, I apparently still had some fuel in the rails and it fired for a split second and shut it off (I don't even thing rpms got up to 1000 rpms, I was very quick to react to it actually starting up).

after pulling ignition relay and did it again and could hear a thud when one of the cylinders were firing (not bearing noise)

after 6-7 go arounds of running the starter for about 10 seconds a piece, and having the oil pressure needle go just above 0, I started it up.

Immediately had bad valvetrain noise and that "thud" was pretty loud, shut it off after about 10-15 seconds with no difference in noise. Had 40 psi of oil pressure at about 1000 rpm idle.

Tried it again twice for about 10-15 seconds and still loud.

took valve covers off and everything looked normal....except the rockers were bone dry. After some researching it seems it takes a couple of minutes (especially on the '98 block I have) for oil to reach the rockers. So I bit the bullet and put it back together and let it run for 4 minutes (I don't know if this was good or bad). Most of the noise went away (all of the minor valve train noise actually). That loud thud was still there however, sounds almost like a collapsed lifter.

Then, there was a slight screeching sound coming from the engine. Sounds like a squealing pulley, but from the engine. Shut her off after the video and haven't started since.

Here's what's been done:
used '98 shortblock
flycut pistons
236/242 XER cam
pac 1518 springs
ls7 lifters
ligenfelter oil pump
comp hardened 7.350 PR's
799 heads milled .030
stock MLS gm headgaskets

Here's the vid

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n_XQg...ature=youtu.be

I'll start from the easiest and try re-torquing the rockers and checking the o ring. but if anyone knows for certain what that is, or if I've already destroyed this engine, please let me know.

crainholio

iTrader: (2)

That high-pitch squeak is not good. I'd remove the serpentine belt and re-start it to narrow down the source of the noise...hopefully it's one of the accessories and the noise will stop w/ the belt off.

If the noise is still there, the engine has a problem. Metal-on-metal is happening somewhere internal, best to disassemble and inspect while it may be salvageable.

black00ssFL

iTrader: (24)

Ya, that's not accessory noise. It's coming from the engine. It started just before I started filming and I shut it off right after I stopped filming. Maybe a minute or so. That's why I started looking around when I was filming, seeing where the noise was coming from. It's a used oil pump too. I might check the o ring and put the stocker back in just to see if that's the problem.

trans_am7935

iTrader: (15)

sounds like the squeak is to fast at idle to be a rocker, maybe it is the oil pump like you said.

crainholio

iTrader: (2)

Of all the engine parts I'd consider buying used, the oil pump isn't on my list. If your original pump wasn't contaminated by whatever took out the stock engine, installing that one is a decent next step.

black00ssFL

iTrader: (24)

I have the stock one from my blown engine, and the one that came with this shortblock. Got the pump in a package deal from a sponsor here with less than 5,000 miles. I don't know if it's even the pump yet, but just starting there. Could've been just a bad shortblock to begin with.

SSmoked1

iTrader: (21)

Did you take off the belt to see if it was any of the accessories making the squeek noise? When I did mt H/C I let the car idle for over 30 minutes and still ad no oil to the top end. I soaked my lifters too... I took off a valve cover and watched the rockers. They started getting oil with some RPMs. Obviously your issue is more then that though. You measured PTV and pushrod length?

black00ssFL

iTrader: (24)

Yes, PTV and pushrod length was checked.

ls1 1990 VN

Subscribed, as my engine is just back up and running and also has a squeak which is not to dissimilar to yours. Loud on cold start, follows engine revs, then kind've dissappears when engines hot, or less notable.
Will see if i can find it's source this weekend.

NeXuS

Brian I bought a new Oil pump with my build.. I have my stocker with 95,000 on it.. the old motor didnt blow up or spin anything so there was no metal in it. so your welcome to try it if you want.

blazer427X3

My car made the same noise when i had a lifter failure.

black00ssFL

iTrader: (24)

Just a quick update. Went to check the rocker arm bolts the other day and did a quick startup. Squeak is not there, and there is no other noise besides the loud ticking. It is just ticking but it is very loud. Oil pressure was instantly at 42psi and held there. All the rockers were tight, and there is now plenty of oil to the top end. It's probably not the oil pump and just a lifter or two on the passenger side. Head is coming off later this week.

black00ssFL

iTrader: (24)

Update: Got the passenger side head off today. Getting pretty good at it, as it only took me 2 hours and 15 min, lol. Anyways, after inspecting everything, it all looks normal! I don't know if this is a good thing or bad.

The noise was definitely coming from the passenger side. Is it noticeable when a lifter is bad/collapsed by looking at it? I took one of my stock pushrods and tried to manually depress the plunger and couldn't do it on any of the lifters.

One thing I noticed also is that number 8 and 6 combustion chambers were really gunky for only being run 7-8 minutes (possibly exhaust valves not opening all the way?). They were cleaned when installed. Kinda stuck at this point as I don't wanna keep putting it back together and taking it apart.

One theory I have is due to me not soaking the lifters in oil. Since I didn't soak them they never got pumped up with oil until after running for a few minutes. But since the noise was coming from the back passenger side, and that is the side that is notorious for getting low oil/takes awhile to get oil, I figure that a couple of lifters just never got any oil in them. That would be the best case scenario at this point.

crainholio

iTrader: (2)

This is interesting and I'm troubleshooting a very similar problem. I floated the valves at the end of last season during an auto-cross, heard an audible valvetrain clatter at #8 very clearly via a stethoscope. It got progressively worse, so I shoved it into my garage and got out the tools.

I pulled the valve covers and rockers, found I damaged the tips of intake valves 2 and 8:
http://www.warpten.com/carpics/valvesprs/IMG_0429.JPG

I polished the valve tips with lapping compound, cleaned everything up, had the valve springs tested and found all the intake springs had lost ~15% of their pre-installation rate from back in 2004. Installed new PAC 1218 springs, reasssembled...and had even more valvetrain clatter.

Disassembled the top end again, removed the intake and lifter valley cover, found cam lobes under the damaged valves had minor damage w/ grooves cut into them. Likely caused by valve tip material washing from the rocker area down to the cam.

http://www.warpten.com/carpics/cam/IMG_0445.JPG

I'll be removing the pax side head and lifters next for detailed examination. At a minimum I expect to find #8 intake lobe trashed from the lifter crashing into it during the valve float.

Keep us updated on your findings.

black00ssFL

iTrader: (24)

Pictures are huge, a little hard to see them. (edit: saw that you linked them instead) I'll keep this updated. I'm toying with the idea of letting the lifters sit in oil a few days, reinstall them, and reuse the headgasket (stock gm mls) and head bolts just for a quick startup just to see if it was lack of oil in the lifters, and if so, take it back apart and install new gaskets and bolts. Don't think I'll have any problems with a quick start up for a gasket and bolt set that was run for less than 10 minutes total (although I wouldn't keep the used gaskets/bolts in there, but it's be a quick/cheap check to see if it was just because of me installing dry lifters.

....and since I've taken off one side, there's a guy selling a set of used .040 cometics near me. That would take my compression from 11.2:1 to 11.65:1 and my DCR from 8.3:1 to 8.6:1

A.R. Shale Targa

iTrader: (2)

Just a thought....I remember reading that when you put the outer oil-pump
gear back in the housing, make sure the beveled edge fits against the back
of the housing. If you don't, the non-beveled edge will grind into the housing.
Courtesy of Kurt Urban from Wheel to Wheel.
Still not sure that a used oil pump is the best idea. It only takes a few
fragments of junk stuck in the bypass spring to unlodge and contaminate
your engine, unless you completely disassembled it and cleaned it
thoroughly then I'm at a loss.

blazer427X3

I tried a lot of the same things when I had my lifter failure. From my own experience :

I was NOT able to depress any of the lifters with a push rod as you mentioned.

I pulled the head and inspected all the lifters on the passenger side, they looked fine so I reinstalled them (after soaking).

With the valley pan and heads off you can get a look at the cam lobes, I would be looking at them very closely before you put anything back together.

I was not able to see the damage to the lobe from the lifter, the base circle was showing at the hole in the block i was looking through.

Although I soaked my lifters they still clattered a bit on the first start up, but very briefly. I think the soaking just helps them pump up quicker ?

Here is what my enging noise sounded like ...




Here is the failed lifter :




Damage to cam :

black00ssFL

iTrader: (24)

Alright, another update. So I let the lifters soak a couple days in oil, and reinstalled everything tonight. I did install the lifters in the reverse order that what I took them out (number 8 lifters now in number 2). That I started the car with the belts removed and no coolant just for a few seconds. The noise is still there but now definitely coming from the front of the engine. Being that the only thing I changed was the lifter location, it's safe to say that it's simply just a bad lifter. That's what I get for buying used right? . Oh well. At least I'm getting pretty damn good at taking this thing apart and putting it back together. Took me three hours from completely dis-assembly to starting it up. I'll update this thread again when I throw some new lifters in there. Thanks for all the input and to those that suggested it was just a lifter....cause ya'll were right, lol.

09camaro383

iTrader: (2)

yesterday i had a similar problem when i finished installing a rebuilt engine into my brother T/A I had a loud noise coming from a rocker driver side cylinder #3 exhaust, i removed the valve cover and started moving the rockers by hand and found one rocker very loose lifter was compressed so i figured it had something stuck so i went to autozone and bought a engine flush for 3.99 and follow it directions and now engine is running smooth

Anthony Williams

iTrader: (3)

Same here x2 Ex on #7 and 8.