sebdavid

Hi guys,

I figured this would be the best place to post; I did do a few searches and didn't find what I was looking for.

To make a long story short, the LS6 in my 2004 Z06 blew due to running lean. Didn't have the right tune and had stock injectors with AFR head/cam package, head, etc. before I bought it, and then after changing the injectors I had a fuel tank problem which made it run lean as a regular occurrence, so the engine called it quits at Mosport a few weeks ago.

This is a track car (road race) and needs to be 100% reliable even being driven hard all day at the track & during long sessions; I'd like to get back pretty much the same thing as before (a little less than 500hp at the crank, 407 at the wheels on a Mustang dyno), which I should since the head and everything else can be saved. I just need a short block.

The (very reputable) shop who's taking care of the engine is suggesting the 350 LS1 Lingenfelter block, as is, no options ticked: http://www.lingenfelter.com/mm5/merc...egory_Code=C56

Is this a good option for my use, or is there something better out there for a reasonable price?

Thanks for the help!

intenseblue

iTrader: (1)

Have your old crank turned, Callies rods, and either Diamond or Wiseco pistons is what I would do. No sense in buying a whole new block.

sebdavid

Block is cracked, unfortunately. I should have mentioned that.

Sales1@Texas-speed

Feel free to give us a call we will be happy to get you set up with a short block to meet your needs.

sebdavid

Hey Aaron, what option would you suggest? It seems logical to want to reuse the head, cam, and everything else I had with the LS6, but an LS2 or LS3 has been discussed. It would be a more expensive proposition and I've heard too many horror stories about oiling issues under heavy cornering loads...

garygnu

do rules require stock cubes?consider a ls2 long block with a conversion kit if you can.or consider a TSP short block and use your heads.have your heads checked out and rebuilt if needed.scwanke engines is also a good source for ls short blocks.

sebdavid

OK, I should really have been more detailed in my initial explanation, but I didn't want to bore you.

Heads are OK and will be machined and reused. I had nice stuff on the old engine (AFR head/cam package, TPIS throttle body, FAST intake) and it would seem logical to reuse them. Only the short block including rotating assembly need replacing, block is cracked and pistons are toast.

LS2/LS3 option scares me because of oiling issues under heavy lateral Gs. Plus, I wouldn't be able to reuse my stuff (right?) and therefore I would be buying a complete engine instead of just a short block.

I am instructing at HPDEs and not racing (yet), so I'm not taking into account any sanctioning body's rules re: stock displacement and the like.

Thanks for the TSP and Scwanke suggestions. How do they compare with Lingenfelter? I'm trying to get a feel for how well LPE is considered as far as building good reliable short block packages for circuit applications.

Jason 98 TA

iTrader: (4)

Here's what makes a TSP short-block different from other engines on the market.

We use a complete CNC machine to digitize & machine the blocks. This way, we can closely inspect a block & put it on factory blueprint specs. A typical machine shop can only setup & machine a block. They have no way of properly digitizing a block & inspecting the data. In other words, most machine shops machine what's there, & if it's incorrect from GM it stays incorrect. It's not the machine shops fault, necessarily. They just don't have the ability to check the block & put it on proper blueprint specs. Now you're probably thinking how far off can a GM block really be? I can tell you it will really surprise you to see what we have to do to correct some of these LS blocks. Obviously, the engines will run with the block machined incorrectly, but if it's possible to correct these issues why not do so? Most shops aren't willing to spend in the $500,000 range to build a state-of-the-art machine shop specifically for LS engines. We ONLY machine LS-based engines! It's what we love to do, and as a result we felt our best option was to invest the money to make the best possible product available.

We didn't change the pricing on our short-blocks when we invested that money. Our goal was to bring the production in-house so we have better control over the product & can make sure we build the best possible short-block every time.

With a TSP short-block you get the following:

• CNC Digitize blocks every time
• CNC blueprinting
• CNC Stroker Clearancing (same clearance every time rather than some $5 a hour guy hacking too much out of a sleeve)
• CNC cylinder chamfers (rather than having 8 different chamfers changing every cylinders compression)
• Every block is precision-honed with a brand new Sunnen hone using two torque plates & various covers installed & torqued on the block (to replicate the blocks operating environment as closely as we can)
• Precision balanced using the industry-leader CWT balancer with properly trained technicians that treat every rotating assembly like a race engine. You would be surprised how much power you can lose when a rotating assembly is not balanced perfectly!

These are just a few of the advantages. I could go into a LOT more detail if so desired.

To put it simply, we could have built an average short-block & been comparable to other short-blocks available, but good enough just isn't good enough for our customer.

sebdavid

Jason,

Thanks for your explanations, this is an impressive exposé/sales pitch. I believe most of what you talked about also holds true for the Lingenfelter and Scwanke products (blueprinting, balanced assemblies, etc.). At least I would hope so!

Quickly and without needing to go into a huge level of details, what short block would you suggest for somebody in my situation, looking for reliability @ about 500 crank hp?

FORD KILLER

iTrader: (1)

I drove an LS3 vette today and it was way impressive over my LS1. 500hp would be super easy to get with LS2/3.

sebdavid

Thanks for your comments. The LS1 short block, which is the same as the LS6, and the bolt ons I already have, would end up giving me that amount of power, without having to buy a complete engine and with less potential high-g oiling issues.

I'm not comparing stock LS1 vs. stock LS3 here; I'm mainly interested in comparing the different options out there based on an LS1/6 short block (LPE, TSP, Scwanke, etc.).

99bluefirebird

iTrader: (8)

I dont know what info you have but your heads/cam will work fine on an LS2 or LS3 or even LS7 short block. Your heads will still be cathedral port and so you will need your old intake, but all that bolts right up to the newer generation short blocks. All you need is about $200 worth of knock sensor extension and front/rear/valley covers and your set. Just make sure you get the correct reluctor wheel on the crank for an LS1 application. Just depends on how much you want to spend. Approximations:
<$2k for a stock pull out LS2 shortblock
$4k for a 385ci AES forged/stroked LS2
$4k for a 376ci TSP forged LS3
$6.5k for a 441ci TSP forged/stroked LS7

And of course anywhere in between. Really no reason to stick with the older LS1/LS6 platform in your case unless your class limits cubes. "Oiling issues" are not a problem if you have a good pump/clearances on the engine.

mpatton

You can reuse all you parts on a TSP 6.0 block and do a 370 with ur heads and cam that would be a pretty stout and reliablemotor....

Jason 98 TA

iTrader: (4)

I actually disagree with that statement. To my knowledge nobody else in the LS industry does cnc block blueprinting like TSP.

500 crank hp is so easy it's not even funny. Just about any short-block at 347 and above can go past 500 with a decent heads/cam combo. It really depends on the budget. Typically I say get as many cubes as you can pay for at the time your building. You can't easily go back & add cubes down the road, but you can change components around that short-block & make more & more power.

Jason

Jason 98 TA

iTrader: (4)

http://www.texas-speed.com/p-588-tsp...ort-block.aspx

On a budget here's my pic.

a 408 cid iron stroker fully blueprinted with 4.030" bore pistons so the cylinders can be correctly blueprinted & ready to go.

Every TSP short-block is precision balanced & even has the cylinder finish checked!!

VIPRETR2

iTrader: (63)

So this is a track/road race car and people are suggesting iron block builds? That makes zero sense.

For the relatively modest hp you are looking for you could get away with another low mile stock shortblock with rod bolts as insurance. However, I would suggest finding a a stock block and crank and throwing some Compstar rods and Diamond pistons in there. ****, I bought an LS6 shortblock for $400 a few months ago, they are out there. That's my advice "on a budget".

sebdavid

Yeah, I didn't really understand the iron block suggestion, but I didn't know enough to react.

Buying a cheap used block is not the advice I'm getting from the shop, for obvious reasons. It would save me a few thousand dollars, but potentially cost me more in the long run compared with a brand new blueprinted one. That, and I wouldn't know where to look.

I've been burned on not knowing the history of a motor, buying another unknown quantity seems iffy. And at this point, really low miles LS1/6 engines are going to be hard to find.

VIPRETR2

iTrader: (63)

I understand completely but as you can see shops just want to sell, sell, sell. Get a block and a good stock crank, forged rods and pistons and you will be way ahead of the game without spending yourself into a hole for no reason. Good luck whatever you choose.

sebdavid

In this case the shop will make waaaay more on labor than they will make on profit (if any) from the block itself, since I can compare the purchase price they quoted with the published price on Lingenfelter's page. I think for them (and me) it's more a matter of safety, if there's a problem with the engine down the line and it's a used block, it leads to an unsavory situation.

And again, if there were a significant amount of inexpensive LS1/6 shot blocks with low miles running around, it would be another thing, but I'm not seeing that! Unless I'm not looking in the right places...

Thanks a lot for the advice.

VIPRETR2

iTrader: (63)

No problem, seems like you already made the decision. Lingenfelter has a great reputation and excellent warranty, of course you pay a premium for it but that sounds like what you are looking for.