Oil issues with my build, need some thoughts.
02-04-2012, 05:46 PM
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Oil issues with my build, need some thoughts. Okay fellas, I need help 
. I'm working through this right now with my builder whose been fantastic about making himself available, but I would like your thoughts on the below issues as well. Additional input can't hurt at this point.
My forged 370 build, which I intended for forced induction in the future, is not doing so well. The engine is assembled and in car, but I'm seeing oil loss at a rate of around 1 quart of oil per 150 miles. I'll try to give you the short, TL DR version first. After that, I'll give you a few more details.
Build:
LQ9 Block, bored .030 over (370 CI)
Wiseco Forged Pistons, 4.030 bore, -11 dish, GFX Rings (for the boost I had planned)
ARP Main and Head Studs
Eagle H-Beam Connecting Rods
Melling Oil Pump
Custom Cam
Chromemoly Pushrods, 7.400",
Beehive Valvesprings
LS3 intake, Fuel Rail, and Injectors, with Wiring Adapter
LS3 Heads (New, not used)
LS7 Lifters
LS2 Timing Chain
90MM Throttle Body
85 MM MAF
Reused miscellaneous parts from original LS1, such as timing cover, oil pan, etc.
Those details should do. Car runs smooth, starts right up in the cold, and is making great power; first dyno pull was in the 400 rwhp shortly after build, and a recent pull with the 1000 miles or so it has now, showed about 430.
Symptoms: Despite running well I've been seeing the mentioned oil usage issue since it was first on the road. There are no physical leaks at this time, though at first there were a couple; see background for more info. I had hoped it was just physical leaks, sigh, but that seems to not to be the case. So, the symptoms I can see of any possible relevance right now:
1) I sometimes get a very light puff of white smoke on startup when it's been sitting for a couple days.
2) I also get a light puff of white when I stomp the gas to the floor, but that's about it (does not appear to be upon deceleration)
3) I've very recently noticed and realized that the condensation I get out of the exhaust (those odd drips or spits of water you get normally), appear to be extremely dirty water. These spots leave dark stain spots on the driveway.
Lack of Symptoms:
1) There does not appear to be any oil in the water or water in the oil, that I can see. My coolant levels have remained steady.
2) According to my builder, my plugs looked clean and a leak-down test and compression test showed no problems (though I didn't see those results myself).
3) Oil pressure is always steady. Idling at around 700 RPM it's about 60 psi, and cruising at 40 mph at about 1900 RPM, it's slightly above 70.
My Thoughts, Questions: Now at first, with symptom 3 above, I thought that might just be the result of a rich tune, and I was seeing perhaps some unburned fuel. But the more I think on it, the more I wonder if that could instead be part of the oil issue. However, is that even possible? If that was oil, why would it manifest like that? Why am I not billowing smoke when I drive down the road instead? Perhaps there's too much oil pressure under acceleration? Is that possible? Could it cause issues, and push oil?
I've been told that engines built with forced induction in mind will tend to use a tiny bit of oil (quarter of a quart upon oil change time) and spit out the odd light puff of smoke under hard acceleration, which I've found to be true enough through research, others' cars, and discussion with my builder. But clearly, the usage I'm seeing here is way beyond normal. I have not had the opportunity to discuss symptom 3 with him just yet.
Background: There's not much more to tell, except to detail the only notable odds and ends issues I saw once we got the engine into the car, which were the physical leaks.
When it went back the first time for leaks, my builder found that there was a hairline crack down the middle of the oil pan, though there was no evidence of impact, and I didn't hit anything I'm aware of.
The second time it went back for leakage after that, my builder found some cracks in the front timing cover, from the front bolt area. We both figured it to be most likely that the bolts had just been torqued too tight.
So that's where things stand at the moment. I'm beginning to feel discouraged at this point. I want this project to pan out well, but with my luck in general lately, I don't know. I'm just not mechanically inclined enough to come up with some good ideas here, so I'm seeking all the opinions and thoughts I can get. Thanks for reading.
. I'm working through this right now with my builder whose been fantastic about making himself available, but I would like your thoughts on the below issues as well. Additional input can't hurt at this point.My forged 370 build, which I intended for forced induction in the future, is not doing so well. The engine is assembled and in car, but I'm seeing oil loss at a rate of around 1 quart of oil per 150 miles. I'll try to give you the short, TL DR version first. After that, I'll give you a few more details.
Build:
LQ9 Block, bored .030 over (370 CI)
Wiseco Forged Pistons, 4.030 bore, -11 dish, GFX Rings (for the boost I had planned)
ARP Main and Head Studs
Eagle H-Beam Connecting Rods
Melling Oil Pump
Custom Cam
Chromemoly Pushrods, 7.400",
Beehive Valvesprings
LS3 intake, Fuel Rail, and Injectors, with Wiring Adapter
LS3 Heads (New, not used)
LS7 Lifters
LS2 Timing Chain
90MM Throttle Body
85 MM MAF
Reused miscellaneous parts from original LS1, such as timing cover, oil pan, etc.
Those details should do. Car runs smooth, starts right up in the cold, and is making great power; first dyno pull was in the 400 rwhp shortly after build, and a recent pull with the 1000 miles or so it has now, showed about 430.
Symptoms: Despite running well I've been seeing the mentioned oil usage issue since it was first on the road. There are no physical leaks at this time, though at first there were a couple; see background for more info. I had hoped it was just physical leaks, sigh, but that seems to not to be the case. So, the symptoms I can see of any possible relevance right now:
1) I sometimes get a very light puff of white smoke on startup when it's been sitting for a couple days.
2) I also get a light puff of white when I stomp the gas to the floor, but that's about it (does not appear to be upon deceleration)
3) I've very recently noticed and realized that the condensation I get out of the exhaust (those odd drips or spits of water you get normally), appear to be extremely dirty water. These spots leave dark stain spots on the driveway.
Lack of Symptoms:
1) There does not appear to be any oil in the water or water in the oil, that I can see. My coolant levels have remained steady.
2) According to my builder, my plugs looked clean and a leak-down test and compression test showed no problems (though I didn't see those results myself).
3) Oil pressure is always steady. Idling at around 700 RPM it's about 60 psi, and cruising at 40 mph at about 1900 RPM, it's slightly above 70.
My Thoughts, Questions: Now at first, with symptom 3 above, I thought that might just be the result of a rich tune, and I was seeing perhaps some unburned fuel. But the more I think on it, the more I wonder if that could instead be part of the oil issue. However, is that even possible? If that was oil, why would it manifest like that? Why am I not billowing smoke when I drive down the road instead? Perhaps there's too much oil pressure under acceleration? Is that possible? Could it cause issues, and push oil?
I've been told that engines built with forced induction in mind will tend to use a tiny bit of oil (quarter of a quart upon oil change time) and spit out the odd light puff of smoke under hard acceleration, which I've found to be true enough through research, others' cars, and discussion with my builder. But clearly, the usage I'm seeing here is way beyond normal. I have not had the opportunity to discuss symptom 3 with him just yet.
Background: There's not much more to tell, except to detail the only notable odds and ends issues I saw once we got the engine into the car, which were the physical leaks.
When it went back the first time for leaks, my builder found that there was a hairline crack down the middle of the oil pan, though there was no evidence of impact, and I didn't hit anything I'm aware of.
The second time it went back for leakage after that, my builder found some cracks in the front timing cover, from the front bolt area. We both figured it to be most likely that the bolts had just been torqued too tight.
So that's where things stand at the moment. I'm beginning to feel discouraged at this point. I want this project to pan out well, but with my luck in general lately, I don't know. I'm just not mechanically inclined enough to come up with some good ideas here, so I'm seeking all the opinions and thoughts I can get. Thanks for reading.
Last edited by Starcleaver; 02-08-2012 at 08:22 PM.
02-04-2012, 05:59 PM
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did you retain any of the pcv system also did your heads come assembled from gm and if you could get the results of the clt test would help and i know about oil consumption i work for porsche and our spec is 1.5 quarts in 690 miles lol p.s you check rear main and valley pan oil pressure sending unit etc and when and how did you perform clt test cold or warm my brothers 414 cui sbc was built on the loose side and cold had roughly 15 percent leakage and warm almost 30 percent so if it was done cold get engine to operating temp and recheck
02-06-2012, 01:46 PM
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Thanks for the info Fast, I'll see what info I can get from my builder on some of those details, and find out how the test was run.
Anyone else have thoughts on this miss ? Would greatly appreciate it..
Anyone else have thoughts on this miss
? Would greatly appreciate it..
04-03-2012, 12:59 PM
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fastazzls1 you were right on the money with suspecting the pcv system. I got fed up and headed to another shop for additional opinions. Turns out the original builder simply removed all pcv systems and capped off some areas. Now, I'm not clear on the details (which is why, of course, I pay the experts), but it was so screwed up that the pcv system was sucking enormous amounts of oil up into the manifold, and just mixing it into the fuel system.
They pulled the manifold off and drained about a quart and a half of oil out. I had them set up a working pcv system back on the engine, and the oil consumption issue appears to be fixed. I'm fit to be tied though, that was ridiculous. Three months back and forth for nothing. Take it to a new shop, and in an hour and a half they spot the issue. I was trying to give the original builder every chance to make it right but...sigh. /rant off.
Its since been retuned and has been running great so far, but there's been other hiccups. Anyways, point is, thanks Fast for your input, it was right on.
They pulled the manifold off and drained about a quart and a half of oil out. I had them set up a working pcv system back on the engine, and the oil consumption issue appears to be fixed. I'm fit to be tied though, that was ridiculous. Three months back and forth for nothing. Take it to a new shop, and in an hour and a half they spot the issue. I was trying to give the original builder every chance to make it right but...sigh. /rant off.
Its since been retuned and has been running great so far, but there's been other hiccups. Anyways, point is, thanks Fast for your input, it was right on.