Mike K.

Well guys I went to another shop and had my heads flowed, cam doctored, and PCM read.

Here is what I found.

The initial results for those who forgot are

flowed on a 3.970 bore and the Bench was a SF600


INTAKE PORT

.100" / 70.2 cfm
.200" / 141.3
.300" / 202.0
.400" / 243.5
.500 / 259.6
.600 / 262.5
.700 / 268.2


EXHAUST PORT w/ tube

.100" / 54.7 cfm
.200" / 106.1
.300" / 146.2
.400" / 183.5
.500" / 206.8
.600" / 223.9
.700" / 228.6

Now the 2nd time around I had them flowed on both a 3.9 bore and a 4.125 bore (4.125 bore because this is the bore JPR told me he used to flow my heads)

flowed on a 3.900 bore and the Bench was a SF1020

INTAKE PORT

.100" / 66.7 cfm
.200" / 138.2
.300" / 195.5
.400" / 240.8
.500" / 256.9
.600" / 260.4
.700" / 265.4


EXHAUST PORT without tube

.100" / 52.7 cfm
.200" / 100.6
.300" / 136.2
.400" / 163.3
.500" / 180.8
.600" / 192.4
.700" / 198.7


Now for the 4.125 bore

I only flowed the intake because what does it matter at this point

flowed on a 4.125 bore and the Bench was a SF1020

INTAKE PORT

.100" / 67.6 cfm
.200" / 135.2
.300" / 195.9
.400" / 236.1
.500" / 263.2
.600" / 269.3

So the 2nd results are in and they are not pretty. Infact the 2nd results are actually worse than the initial results which is a shame as these heads were $2100.00 and were advertised to flow to the HVLD spec which is 305 to 310 cfm at .550 which we would hope would be a 3.9 bore but come to find out JPR flows all his heads on a 4.1 bore but either way my heads do not even come close to this spec. They are 30-50 cfm below this I also had my heads re cc'd and they again spec'd out to 60cc's which means my compression was nearly a point higher than the advetised 10.7 to 1


My cam spec'd out exactly as the origninal results were which is

single pattern 236/236, .602 lift on a 114 LSA +2 on Comp Cams XER lobes

I also had the computer checked out and found out that I had max timing at WOT set to 33 degrees even in safe mode which is too much IMO especially since my heads put me at 11.4 to 1 cr when they should have been 10.7 to 1 cr

In a recent email from JPR which I will post below he says that my heads should flow a certain number on a 4.1 bore. This is very contradicting as his numbers are way higher than what they actually flow. I also like how he gives the impression that my heads were an old style head that do not flow to the new JPR spec and yet he himself quotes in a post replying to me what his intial set of HVLD heads should flow and if this is the first set of heads which flowed more than what he quoted me in the recent email how can my heads be an old design flow wise since they flow 30-50 cfm less than what he himself said his first set of HVLD heads should flow in the below thread

https://ls1tech.com/forums/generation-iii-internal-engine/2094-my-camaros-s2-heads-experimental-cam-only-dyno-report.html

He actually replies to me in that thread saying

************************************************** *******
Mike K:
The JPR S2 HVLD destinction is our highest quality flow LS1 runners to date, it stands for "High Velocity Low Drag" We have about 5 sets out there right now and have proven to make more power over our conventionally ported S2's, it's our own unique twisted bowl design that also goes against the grain of common head porting unless everyone can get 81 cfm @ .100 and 308-311 @ .550 in a compact runner.
************************************************** ********

Now here is the email he sent me a couple weeks ago.

************************************************** ********
Mike,
Those HVLD flow numbers that your quoting are our latest ones that I developed recently, where you got thoses flow numbers from I think was from a recent post where TEA made mention that they are the higest flow numbers that have been seen to date. The specs your heads were ported to 8 monthes in change ago were exactly these on my 4.100 bore plate.

.100 73
.200 151
.300 206
.400 258
.450 271
.500 289
.550 291
.600 306-310
************************************************** ********

His email was in response to an email that I sent to him which I will also post below.

He is already lying to me in his response to my email as he stated that my heads were an older style that were not supposed to flow to what I thought the flow numbers should be which I got from his very 1st set of HVLD heads in a thread that was started by him back in March of 2003. So looking at his post he says including his 1st set of HVLDs that he has 5 sets out meaning that at the very least mine would have to be the 6th set. If the first 5 sets flow 81 cfm @ .100 and 308-311 @ .550 in a compact runner according to his own words then why are mine suddenly supposed to flow 30-50cfm lower at the same lift range when my heads were actually made after his first 5 sets?

This really doesn't matter because my heads are still 30 + cfm lower than even what he decided to quote me a couple of weeks ago, and this is also one example of where I can prove that JPR lied to me. This is just 1 instance there are many more.

Here is what I sent JPR a couple weeks ago which is what he was responding to in the quote I listed above where he stated that my heads were an older style.

************************************************** ********
Hi Joe Prince, per our phone conversation I just want to confirm that you will repair my heads if they do not flow to the HVLD spec which is between 305cfm -310cfm at .550 lift on a 3.905 bore with a 211 cc intake runner meaning that you will do whatever is necessary free of charge to make my heads flow to this spec. Also my heads were CC'd at 60cc's which would mean that my compression is also much higher than the advertised compression of 10.5 :1 for the HVLD cylinder heads. If upon your inspection my heads are indeed at 60cc's you agreed to replace my cylinder heads with a set of new ones that are milled correctly to attain the 10.5 :1 ratio which is 64.43 cc's, you also agreed that this new set of heads will flow to the above mentioned HVLD spec and that the new heads will be free of charge. You also agreed to pay for shipping both to and from your shop.

************************************************** ********

I have called JPR and asked for my money back but he says he is out of money go figure . He did say that if I send him my heads back that he would make them flow the numbers he quoted me above but on a 3.9 bore. I was thinking of agreeing to this and I asked him to send me an email stating this which he said he would but then when I later talked to him he stated that his email was not working because his hard drive was at the FBI being investigated for clues to somebody that has been spying on him . No I am not kidding that is actually what he said. To make it blunt. IMO JPR cannot be trusted so I am not sending him these heads. He can send me a new set that flows to spec if he wants and then I will send him these but there is no way in hell I am sending these heads back to him because I doubt I would ever hear from him again after I did this.

Hopefully others can learn from my mistakes and at all costs avoid JPR. JPR has lied to me even to my face with me pointing it out to him several times. Now that I see the entire puzzle it makes sense why JPR told me to come to New Jersey and offered me a free hotel \ car and also asked that I let nobody else check out my heads because his design was secret ( I had to remind him of the hotel bill and never got the car while I was there). If I would have stuck to my orginal plan and just bolted on my heads myself and had them checked out locally I would have discovered the scam way ahead of time. Whats even worse is that he kept up the charade even while I was up there and it seems that my power was made not through custom runners as quoted to me in another email but through high compression and high timing in my PCM. What is worse is he charged me even more money for the install (which I helped him on, I received shitty oil and dirty radiator fluid as part of the install which costed me a grand) knowing full well that my heads were screwed up. He then charged me for the tune that ultimately blew my motor due to detonation knowing that this would happen

This is honestly not a bashing post but a warning post to others. Stay away from JPR at all costs. If you have his heads take the time and remove them to find out what is really going on in there. If you have a tune by him or somebody affiliated with him have that checked as well because if not you may end up needing an entire longblock just as I did.

11 Bravo

iTrader: (3)

Dude, that sucks. What can you say? If it makes you feel better, imagine being in limbo and not knowing if you've in fact lost ten thousand five hundred dollars worth of money you saved in a combat zone for a 427 w/ LS6 intake. Or what issues will arise if you actually get it this century. Almost makes you want to get out of the hobby.

Bink

^^^^ That is sick...as in puke or vomit (not cool). Thanks Mike -for taking the time to post your nightmare. Sorry.


joel

Iv_z28

Yeah... I remember at one point in time I seriously thought about getting HVLD heads from JPR... advertisement, performance garantees, price - everything looked perfect... I can only feel sorry for Mike and the guy JPR is working for now... ... I mean there is no way I would take my car to his shop if he makes that type of hiring mistakes.. somebody he hires may forget to put oil in my car... ...and so I'm very grateful to Mike for the lesson

- take with a grain of salt everything you hear from stranges on the internet.

badaSS346

iTrader: (4)

ok is there anything aside from word of mouth that say what the heads "should" have been able to flow? An email, web site, or letter? If there is, and the heads dont flow it...then he legally has no choise then to give you the money back. And since it is over $2000, it is not settle in small claims or civil court(dont quote me....may have to be more than $2500). But it should not have to get to that cuz its cut and dry. It like if you paid me to shovle your drive way and i never do...do i get to keep the money?? No. Tell him you want the money back and if he says no tell him that you are taking him to court not to sue but for him to agree to take the heads back and give you your cash. Then if you need a lawyer, then you sue him for the legal fees. Now im not sue happy or anything like that but there are times when you gotta do what you gotta do (sorry cant really say that without sounding corny). Good Luck

blk~2000~Z28

At first you had me confused by this statement. Then I read your sig and all I can say is WOW. I hope everything comes through considering the amount you listed. Good Luck.

Mike K.

Yes I have multiple emails, a saved copy of his website, and mulitple quotes from JPR's previous posts saved. I am really not to sure what to do other than to not send my heads back up to him. I really do want my money back and I can prove that the heads are not what he sold me. I think he is claiming bankruptcy though so I am not sure how this would affect any action I take. I already asked for my money back but he said he could not give it to me because he has no money to give.

11bravo I think about you everyday man and I hope it all works out for you, maybe if you paid on a credit card you can dispute the charges? I also feel at times like giving up on this sport but I have found that there are several other shops that are nothing like JPR so if anything this is good news for the both of us. When you get your block it may suck but it might be worth it to pull it apart and pay somebody to check clearances and to make sure all the parts are what he said he sold you. Maybe get your car tuned by an independent vendor as well just to be safe.

DrkPhx

iTrader: (15)

Ugh! That sucks. I would be patient and take whatever course of action neccesary to get your money back.

gomer

iTrader: (13)

Mike, I really feel for you.. but maybe your experience will help some other people out. I know that your next combo will be done right Man JPR is one shady MF'r

JPR lol, JPR and the FBI huh? He actually told you that?

VINCE

iTrader: (1)

I honestly believe JPR believes the FBI has his computer He has to be on drugs. It's probably at the crack house right now..

11 Bravo

iTrader: (3)

Naw, I sent a check from Baghdad. In the assumption that it would be done within 5 months and installed in my car during my 30 day leave so I could have fun. Leave ended 2 weeks ago lol. I know he's had his problems, personal and otherwise, so I've been very patient and understanding. And I have no communation probs like others have said. But the bottom line is it will be freakin April next week and I have a bolt on car. My hot rod buddies are talking smack behind my back thinking I'm BSing about buying a stroker, cause they can't believe it takes that long. Kinda embarrassing. I'm sure I'll get the motor, but after half a year anyone would start to wonder. I hope your deal works out man!

99 Black Bird T/A

iTrader: (4)

Mike, sounds like you were sold a HDLV (high drag low velocity) port instead of HVLD (high velocity low drag) port. I hope it works out.

I would keep the current heads and maybe send JPR a set of 5.7 cores for him to do then swap out.

Has anyone independantly verified that a 5.7 JPR S2 HVLD can actually flow the numbers claimed? HVLD - High Velocity Low Drag or Has Very Little Done?

Maybe the FBI does have his hard drive. Would possible interstate fraud be something the FBI would investigate?

Mike K.

Lol thats pretty funny. I am honestly telling you guys the truth about the hard drive and the fbi. I was like WTF when he told me this. Thanks for all the support though guys, Im sure my next setup will be much better than this.

badaSS346

iTrader: (4)

If he declared bankruptcy then he is basically gonna liquidate his equipment to creditors and people he "legally" owes money too. Maybe you can get a peice? But i would talk to him first and tell him your intentions. Go to his shop with a few people, preferable the scariest looking f-ker's you know and tell him your intentions. It difficulty to be a hard *** when you are out numbered.

Automag928

Well, hopefully you safe other people from making the same mistakes...Sad you are basically out a ton of cash because of it. Hopefully you will be able to get some kind of resolution.

11 Bravo

iTrader: (3)

I think the bankruptcy deal is just another internet rumor. Too many of them around.

Reboot

iTrader: (5)

11 Bravo, I wish you the best with getting your new motor. I was placing a order for a 427 with Joe the same time you were. I wanted to pay by CC and he kept giving my the excuse that his CC machine was broken. I got a little gun shy and backed out (glad I did). I thought it was funny that he would never answer specifics via e-mail. Only on the phone.

He also quoted me 60 days with a Darton block. I still have that e-mail if you want a copy.

Good luck to everyone that has to deal with JPR, I hope you get things straightened out. Then I hope he goes to jail.

9T9BlueTA

iTrader: (2)

Well I am staying Nuetral in this whole thing as I have read this and that on the boards and I have been told this and that by JPR. I have been to alot of shops (most sponsors) and NONE have impressed me. I have a set of JPR HVLD heads but I have his smaller cam in my car right now. I dont have the dyno numbers yet so dont ask. Joe offered to have me go down there and he would pull my heads and flow test them for me right there or if I had any other concerns just to call him. As for the tuning that was put in there by PCMFORLESS (same as yours Mike), I didnt like it either so I changed it. I think that if you get a custom tune you should know what you are getting. Also all this secret cam crap has to stop, all I can tell people is if the cams a secret its HUGE!
Right now my car is sitting at another sponser shop getting work done and I unable to get in touch with them either for the past few days. The car has also recently developed a coolant leak that they are diagnosing. If its ends up being the head gasket and I have to pull the heads I will get the heads flowed. I will also call JPR and see what he thinks about the head gasket (if thats the case)and if he will help me out.I have gone to shops for tuning and sat on my *** for 8 hours just to have them tell me they overbooked and couldnt do it. Went back AGAIN the next week and had another bullshit excuse. I have paid for full tuning at another shop for $550.00 just get find out that the only thing changed was the pe/rpm ratio and thats it (I am starting to think full tuning is a scam). I have bought products that were the "Hot thing" right now only to find out they are crap. What have I learned from all this? There is no best anything go whever and with who ever you want and make sure if something goes wrong that they will stand behind it or will at least try and help you out.

Now Mike or anybody else the following is just for my own curiosity as I would like to learn more of this stuff. It looks like flowing on the other bores didnt make that much of a difference so that answeres a question of mine. With higher compression how much does that effect numbers? If you make 400 at 10.7 how much would wou make if the heads are milled more to the 11.4 compression? What CR do the 5.3 heads put you at? I just want to know this stuff because if Mikes heads flowed the 300+ CFM what do you think the car would dyno at? Some of Patriots (Just an example) LS6 heads are at 59cc with the TSP 231/237 cam and are making the same numbers, is this the flow numbers dont mean anthing argument? I also have noticed that most cars after 30 degrees of timing dont make anymore power so I cant understand why you would go higher than that. I also dont understand the "My car is tuned to a safe 28 degrees of timing" thing when my cars STOCK timing is 28 degrees, what the hell did they tune?

Pro Stock John

iTrader: (34)

I believe I know who you had flow the heads I heard the numbers thru the grapevine. (no need to tell me).

Well, sounds like you have a set of barely ported heads or badly ported heads.

I guess he never wanted you to go fast he just wanted your money. This to me is an example of my concern with some places, what kind of service is this?

CRASH 02

iTrader: (3)

JPR=bad guy.

Note taken. Never do business with JPR or anyone who is affiliated with him.