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Generation III Internal Engine
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Old 04-05-2012, 06:34 PM   #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wytry View Post
In his defense, he didn't list that aftermarket casting that was beat,
Did you actually read the thread?
PI LXR 215s
Here is some info on who makes them
Performance Induction 215LXR Dyno results!!

All found right here with very little effort.

I am aware that the dyno chart in the link has more power but there are a lot of other things different as well, so the other link where only the heads were changed is still an interesting comparison.
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Old 04-05-2012, 07:28 PM   #42
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Originally Posted by 01ssreda4 View Post
5.3 heads are damn near given away. Quoting new price is silly, takes away the whole advantage of using a stock head.

Also, TFS and other aftermarket heads require roller rockers for about $400 whereas stock heads do not. Hidden cost of some aftermarket castings.
My understanding is that you can run stock rockers with a shim kit on TFS 215'S. Also, I imagine new prices are inflated, but it's a worst case scenario.
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Old 04-05-2012, 08:55 PM   #43
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Originally Posted by 96capricemgr View Post
Here is a comparison of "superior" aftermarket heads to the AI 243s.
Back to Back Dyno Test PI 215s & Ai CNCd GM 5.3
That is an awesome thread and side by side comparison!
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Old 04-06-2012, 10:09 AM   #44
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Excellent points. But you gain some weight with most aftermarket heads,most need or should use aftermarket rockers/guides. Its really a good argument for both sides.
Thanks. I'm debating with myself on which route to go. If I do ported 243/799 heads, I'm going to go with Ed Curtis at Flowtech Inductions. I saw on one of the LS1GTO forums a guy with Ed's CNC'd 243's and one of Ed's custom cams make 463/418 to the tires. I believe that was also with an LS6 intake. I like your point about aftermarket rockers/guides when going with aftermarket castings. Would these be required if you went with AFR heads?
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Old 04-06-2012, 10:58 AM   #45
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My understanding is that you can run stock rockers with a shim kit on TFS 215'S. Also, I imagine new prices are inflated, but it's a worst case scenario.
Whenever they use bronze guides, after-market rockers are preferable. Otherwise guides will wear out prematurely. Another option is to use stock guide materials.
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Old 04-06-2012, 05:43 PM   #46
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well we ended up going with the prc 215's.We did this for a number of reasons,but the biggest reason is we can order them with 62cc chambers and keep lots of ptv clearance at the same time.I plan on setting him up with some .040 or .045 cometics with this setup.This will allow us to keep his compression high,good quench and much better efficiency. We didnt want to flycut or mill the heads,and wanted to be able to slide in a larger cam in the future if he does gears or wants to change his setup.We got the heads with the powdered metal guides for greater durability with the factory rockers.Overall he is going to have a nice setup with great average torque and great power up top.I am hoping to get him to 440 with his ls6 intake.
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Old 04-06-2012, 08:01 PM   #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rise of the Phoenix View Post
I saw on one of the LS1GTO forums a guy with Ed's CNC'd 243's and one of Ed's custom cams make 463/418 to the tires. I believe that was also with an LS6 intake.
Link please.
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Old 04-06-2012, 09:26 PM   #48
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prc 215's are better, ai's are cheaper
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Old 04-07-2012, 12:49 AM   #49
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^^ gotta love technical responses like that
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Old 04-07-2012, 01:55 AM   #50
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^ probably has no experience with either
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Old 04-21-2012, 11:06 AM   #51
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dam this was a good *** thread! I picked up some PRC 215s used on here about 2 months ago for 1525. I still haven't put em on but when i do im hoping to gain at least 40whp through my auto and 12 bolt.

I think the ported ls6/ls2 heads are a great head and flow good numbers. but for a few extra dollars why not get the prc 215s? you can still run the stock rockers. either way you go im sure your gonna be satisfied with the gains and performance. your debating over 2 great heads so you cant go wrong here.
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Old 04-25-2012, 12:55 AM   #52
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TSP have Aaron send me some PRC227s at 57cc and i will back to back test them vs my TFS215s...Just need you guys to turn down some ls3 valves and it will be an A-B comparision with a car that puts down 525rwhp now and runs 9.8s...If they make more power i will gladly purchase them and I am sure you will sell a ton following the results...

I can document the whole process too, with a bunch of pics and videos
Hey Chris, any updates?
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Old 04-25-2012, 01:38 PM   #53
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If you already have the 243/799 heads, sending them to AI, getting them fully ported for $995, I would say that is the most budget friendly head out there. And with the right cam can net some really good numbers.
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Old 04-25-2012, 02:25 PM   #54
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Originally Posted by TVWilkes View Post
Easy,

2) Better chamber design. The stock chamber isn't always ideal. When you cnc the stock head it opens up the chamber. So you have to mill them to raise the compression back up.
Unless you can TIG weld some material in there and then re-shape. (799's with full valvetrain) 51cc chambers that still flow well. Around 13:1 compression. Someday I'll have some dyno numbers for this thread. A good 3-6 months away.

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Old 04-25-2012, 10:11 PM   #55
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^^very nice...why not just get some custom pistons though to bump the compression?
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Old 04-25-2012, 10:12 PM   #56
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Hey Chris, any updates?
Crickets lol, never heard anything
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Old 04-26-2012, 12:58 PM   #57
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^^very nice...why not just get some custom pistons though to bump the compression?
I try to inch out every bit where I can. Custom domed pistons are not the most efficient way to go. A flat top piston promotes the best burn from everything I have read. The dome top can offer too many inconsistencies with burn performance. It can be done, but the flat top keeps it elegant and simple. Although domes would be cheaper. Custom chamber work like this gets a bit pricey. Well beyond that of a dedicated casting if you get crazy like I did. This head is a pure gamble and might just be an extremely expensive moderate performer. I am dying to find out, but its going to be many months.
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Old 04-26-2012, 03:18 PM   #58
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A while back, Patriot used 317 castings (71cc) and made smaller ones using that method.
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Old 05-06-2012, 07:44 PM   #59
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I try to inch out every bit where I can. Custom domed pistons are not the most efficient way to go. A flat top piston promotes the best burn from everything I have read. The dome top can offer too many inconsistencies with burn performance. It can be done, but the flat top keeps it elegant and simple. Although domes would be cheaper. Custom chamber work like this gets a bit pricey. Well beyond that of a dedicated casting if you get crazy like I did. This head is a pure gamble and might just be an extremely expensive moderate performer. I am dying to find out, but its going to be many months.
One would think, being more consistent with compression volume across all 8 cylinders via changing out the piston is better than than the human variance of adding material to each chamber and then grinding/polishing in both pairs of heads. Dont get me wrong, its fantastic work...
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Old 05-07-2012, 07:50 AM   #60
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I have heard of A.I. heads outflowing trickflows on the same machine on the same day. I wasn't there so I can't validate the statement. What I do know, is that there are some nasty fast cars out there running factory castings.
I've never seen or heard of a set of AI's outflowing TFS215s. I've seen where AI 243 heads were flowing 299-302 cfm @ .600 lift, however, eventhough they flow less than other heads, they produce some of the best dyno numbers. TEA 243s flow in line with Trickflow 215s, I believe somewhere around 322cfm @ .600. These are just peak numbers, TFS 215s flowed much better between .200-.500.


Both AI 243/799s and TSP 243/799 heads lay down some good dyno numbers.
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Old 05-07-2012, 07:50 AM
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