Cam selection thoughts
03-27-2012, 11:16 AM
#1
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Cam selection thoughts I'm close to ordering a cam package and have narrowed it down to 2 at this point. Car is an LS1 goat with 243 heads and full exhaust. The cams I am looking at are the 228R and Torquer V2 from TSP. I was mostly set on the 228R, but the car has since become my toy and not a DD so I wouldn't mind stepping up.
A key aspect I want to keep is the low end grunt, and I fear getting the V2 will sacrifice that for not much high end gain over the 228R. Part of my thinks that putting it on a 111 LSA will bring the torque back in to my range and still have higher peak numbers than the 228. Does anyone know how a V2 drives on a 111 LSA? And if the Torquer would be better on a 111, why not get the 228R on a 111 as well?
Thanks for everyone's insights, I have not seen this specific topic addressed.
A key aspect I want to keep is the low end grunt, and I fear getting the V2 will sacrifice that for not much high end gain over the 228R. Part of my thinks that putting it on a 111 LSA will bring the torque back in to my range and still have higher peak numbers than the 228. Does anyone know how a V2 drives on a 111 LSA? And if the Torquer would be better on a 111, why not get the 228R on a 111 as well?
Thanks for everyone's insights, I have not seen this specific topic addressed.
03-27-2012, 12:36 PM
#7
From what I have researched, The V3 is an upgraded design of the V2. Same power, but V3 power band come in earlier. Many people do run it on the street. I'm suprised to see how many people are still considering the v2.
Maybe TSP can give some more info in it.
Maybe TSP can give some more info in it.
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03-27-2012, 01:09 PM
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I hadn't done any research on the V2 until recently because I was set on the 228r so I'm kinda in the dark with it. My buddy just put a V2 in his LS2 goat and it's working well for him, but he has the big engine. Maybe I should be comparing the V3 and 228 on 111's, I haven't looked at V3 curves, how's the area under the curve? Is it too big for stock 243 heads?
TSP giving a good distinction between the two, especially at the LSA I'm looking, would be great.
TSP giving a good distinction between the two, especially at the LSA I'm looking, would be great.
03-27-2012, 03:22 PM
#9
Comp Cams has several lobes that offer increased lift over the XER lobes, without being to radical on the lift. The XFI 230(.612") and the LSL 231(.617") are good options.
Futral F12, and F13 would also be good cam options between the 228r and the TV2.
http://www.futralmotorsports.com/fms....asp?pf=1&pg=5
Futral F12, and F13 would also be good cam options between the 228r and the TV2.
http://www.futralmotorsports.com/fms....asp?pf=1&pg=5
Last edited by 99Bluz28; 03-27-2012 at 03:34 PM.
03-27-2012, 05:57 PM
#10
I like predator-Z choice!! I think that 230/232 is a futral cam. But if your looking at the 228 or TSP TV2, i would opt for the TSP Torquer 2. Its a good all around size for a daily driver. I have a 230 duration cam, that drives smooth and civil i wish i went a tad bigger.
03-27-2012, 09:58 PM
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Predator Z- So I built the following cam on TSP's website: http://texas-speed.com/p-161-comp-ca...-camshaft.aspx
230/232 .592"/.595" 111. XE-R lobes. Those are basically the specs I would like, what do I set the ICL at? I would like to peak at 6000-6200 RPM is so I don't have to spin it past 6500. And how can I be sure it will perform similar to the TSP cams in this range? I feel like I'm just mixing and matching stuff from numbers that I'm used to looking at.
I promise I'm not as n00b as I sound, just new to designing cams.
230/232 .592"/.595" 111. XE-R lobes. Those are basically the specs I would like, what do I set the ICL at? I would like to peak at 6000-6200 RPM is so I don't have to spin it past 6500. And how can I be sure it will perform similar to the TSP cams in this range? I feel like I'm just mixing and matching stuff from numbers that I'm used to looking at.
I promise I'm not as n00b as I sound, just new to designing cams.
Last edited by ViperT4; 03-27-2012 at 11:29 PM.
03-28-2012, 09:03 AM
#16
I had an EPS 226/234 .598/.601 113lsa when I had my 346 and it was great. Pulled great, drove great, didn't even buck when lugged at low rpm in 6th gear, of course most of that is in the tune. Between the two I would get the Torquer V2, you will be able to control that with a nice set of Pac 1518s or equivalent. I would stay away from the V3 unless you plan on spending the money on double springs and a lightweight valvetrain.
03-28-2012, 12:26 PM
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So with this past post in mind...: ...what's the math to find out what degree my intake valve is closing at? And what do I want that number to be- is that just preference (will it only affect what RPM peak power is at or what the peak numbers are?
Cams that have an intake closing point of 40 degrees ABDC tend to make peak power around 6000 rpms. Close the intake around 42 degrees, they peak around 6100. 44 degrees, 6200 rpm power peak. 46 degrees, 6300 rpm power peak.
You can vary intake closing point by playing around with duration, LSA and ICL. For example:
TR 224/224 112LSA +4 cam has intake closing point of 40 degrees ABDC (6000 rpm peak).
TR 224/224 114LSA +4 cam has intake closing point of 42 degrees ABDC (6100 rpm peak)
TR 220/220 114LSA +0 cam has intake closing point of 44 degrees ABDC (6200 rpm peak)
2002 ZO6 204/218 117.5LSA -2.5 cam has intake closing point of 42 degrees ABDC (6100 rpm peak)
TR 230/224 111 LSA +2 cam has intake closing point of 44 degrees (6200 rpm peak)
MTI 209/216 116LSA +4 A1 cam has intake closing point of 36.5 degrees ABDC (5600 rpm peak)
Ideally, you want a cam that is size appropriately for an LS1 to be installed with 0 advance. For a 346, 224 duration seems to be ideal. Go bigger like to 236, you will benefit by advancing the cam. Go smaller like to 214, you will benefit by retarding the cam. The main reason is to get the intake closing point to a time where the engine can best use it. According to SAM, with a 224 cam, they lost about 5-7 rwhp and torque everywhere by advancing the cam 4 degrees and nearly the same by retarding it 4 degrees. But take a 214 cam and you will probably gain 5-7 rwhp and torque everywhere by retarding the cam 2-4 degrees. General rule of thumb. Too small a cam: retard. Too big: advance. Just right: go straight up. Not opinion, just proven dyno results by SAM.
<small>[ October 15, 2002, 07:31 PM: Message edited by: Patrick G ]</small>
You can vary intake closing point by playing around with duration, LSA and ICL. For example:
TR 224/224 112LSA +4 cam has intake closing point of 40 degrees ABDC (6000 rpm peak).
TR 224/224 114LSA +4 cam has intake closing point of 42 degrees ABDC (6100 rpm peak)
TR 220/220 114LSA +0 cam has intake closing point of 44 degrees ABDC (6200 rpm peak)
2002 ZO6 204/218 117.5LSA -2.5 cam has intake closing point of 42 degrees ABDC (6100 rpm peak)
TR 230/224 111 LSA +2 cam has intake closing point of 44 degrees (6200 rpm peak)
MTI 209/216 116LSA +4 A1 cam has intake closing point of 36.5 degrees ABDC (5600 rpm peak)
Ideally, you want a cam that is size appropriately for an LS1 to be installed with 0 advance. For a 346, 224 duration seems to be ideal. Go bigger like to 236, you will benefit by advancing the cam. Go smaller like to 214, you will benefit by retarding the cam. The main reason is to get the intake closing point to a time where the engine can best use it. According to SAM, with a 224 cam, they lost about 5-7 rwhp and torque everywhere by advancing the cam 4 degrees and nearly the same by retarding it 4 degrees. But take a 214 cam and you will probably gain 5-7 rwhp and torque everywhere by retarding the cam 2-4 degrees. General rule of thumb. Too small a cam: retard. Too big: advance. Just right: go straight up. Not opinion, just proven dyno results by SAM.
<small>[ October 15, 2002, 07:31 PM: Message edited by: Patrick G ]</small>
