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Generation III Internal Engine
1997-2006 LS1 | LS6
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Old 03-27-2012, 01:11 PM   #1
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Default Engine Rebuild List and questions...what do you think?

Hello,
I recently found a leak on my 2000 z28. I replaced everything under the sun twice before finding out that it was the rear main seal from the crank. Replacing it seems somewhat easy, however i beleive i might go the direction of rebuild. With 242k miles, the rings, pistons and crank could all use touch ups but i decided to go a more productive route. I have done my homework through google, these threads and other forums so correct me at any point if i speak of something incorrectly.

LS1 350 engine:
-Bore from 3.89(5.7L) to 4.001(6.0L) to match the LS2 in the GTO's.
-Crank from 3.622(stock) to 4.00 stroke (Manley or Callie SLW crank with 58tooth Reluctor becuase thats what i have currently)
-Pistons that match the 4.001 bore
-LS2 Trick Flow heads (220cc intake 80cc exhaust and 65cc combustion) [edit] since from what ive researched LS2 uses identical block as LS1.

Now, common sense tells me the move to the 4.0 stroke will push my piston up .378 of an inch and pull it down just that much also.
1. With that said, my first question is am i going to hit my headers?
2. If so, should i shorten the rods? I could only find .1 of inch shorter rods which doesnt bring my piston back to TDC being flat. I would still be .278 over.
3. Is that where the combustion comes in for the headers?
4. If so how do i know how many CC's .378 or .278 (im sure i could do the math PiR^2h and get about 78cc's) is to get the piston as close to the head as possible without touching? [edit] it seems as though the head gasket will also add another .05 inches to the cylinder bringing my requirements down to .328 which brings my combustion chamber needs to 67.543cc then if im taking my piston into consideration can i say its 67.543-4cc (4 at the very minimum i know some pistons have -6 and -8) bringing me to 63.543. So would LS2 heads with a combustion chamber of 65cc's be sufficient to keep the piston from hitting the heads?
5. 78cc's is too much if my calculations are right becuase most heads only come with a 60-70cc combustion chamber. Of course, should i take the piston into consideration of -4cc's?

If this build turns out well then i will be putting on an LS2 supercharger from Edelbrock (direct fit intake charger). But for now, before i go "building" i want to get my facts straight. Any input will be apreciated, please state your facts with possible links for research reasons if possible. Otherwise label it experience so i can deviate between the 2.

Also, i realise i didnt mention a cam, i am going to stay with the stock one since i have seen multiple videos of people replaceing it without removing the engine and deciding my cam specs afterwards.

I hope i didnt miss anything. Again all input is helpful.

Thanks.
Mike

Last edited by ang1dust; 03-27-2012 at 05:16 PM..
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Old 03-28-2012, 01:01 AM   #2
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i can t help BUT i will be anxiously awaiting to see as i am thinking about doing something similar ... all the best to your build!
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Old 03-28-2012, 12:24 PM   #3
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3 things.

1. Are you sure you have a 58x reluctor? they didnt come out with those until late model ls2s and you have a 2000 ls1. I am pretty sure you have a 24x reluctor unless you physically changed it out.

2. the largest you can bore out a 99+ ls1/ls6 is .010" per GM specifications. 3.908" is your max bore size. only way you can get to a 4.0"+ piston is to resleve the block.

3. the ls2 block is not the same as an ls1 block. there are more differances than just bore size.

good luck with your build.
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Old 03-28-2012, 12:56 PM   #4
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The ls1 block cannot go past 3.905 safely without a resleeve and u need a 24 tooth reluctor
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Old 03-28-2012, 12:58 PM   #5
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Also the bigger crank has nothing to do with hitting the headers.. If I were u look at a 383 stroker kit from tsp and a head and cam package of there's
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Old 03-28-2012, 02:57 PM   #6
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Thanks for all your feedback so far. I found it is a x24 reluctor. I will probably change it out to x58 if i get a new crank and just a generic cam for now.

1. I have seen multiple people say the block used in LS1's and LS2's are identical. How can i verify that it is not? Any place to check serial numbers if i get the one from the block stamp? Also, Doesnt resleve require the bore to be OVER bore before sleved? if so how can a sleve work and not just a basic 4.0001 bore?

2. doesnt the stroke change the distance the piston will move from TDC to Bottom dead center? For example, if the stroke is TDC for a 3.622 is 6.098 (connecting rod) plus the 3.622 (distance from center of crank to the center of the stroke) adding .378 will actually push the piston up and pull it down more. I have read where people dont suggest going over a 4.0 stroker due to longevity because 1 the connecting rod pushes against the wall much more, the rings are wearing (guesstamate) 30% more since your increasing your stroke .4(ish) inches on the up and down (total of .8 of a 7.2 stock stroke making it an 8 inch stroke. I mean i guess i might misiunderstand the meaning of a stroke but i was under the impression it was adding more air to the stroke, also allowing the combustion to push the crank (further out more leverage more power) faster and easier. So with that said, how would the larger stroke NOT push the piston up (or down) far enough where it could hit my heads depending on which i get?

If my calculations were correct (or close) the 4.0 stroker (from 3.622) and the bore to 4.001 (from 3.89) would get me around 390-400.

So if i resleeve, which i may not want to do, the only reason i would need to resleeve is because boring the 3.89 more than .015 would make the walls too weak for an aluminum engine causing the possibility for the walls to fail? Other than that, if i want to go 4.001 i would need to go to an iron (LQx) or larger block?

Anything else i might be missing?
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Old 03-28-2012, 03:30 PM   #7
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LS2 & LS1 block are different guarenteed. And like stated above you cannot bore a LS1 block to a 4" bore without resleeving it & thats expensive. You'd be better off just finding a junkyard LQ4 which is already a 4" bore 6.0L block. Freshen it up with new bearings/gaskets, new cam & intake & you'll have a stout little N/A combo easily put together & without breaking the bank.

I'd also suggest against messing with the stroke given the question about the LS1 block vs LS2 block. If you do buy a off the shelf stroker kit. Even with a 383 in a LS1 block you'll have to clearance some things.

I have seen plenty of guys over the years try to do what your thinking about & it not work out. There are far easier ways to make good power without tryin to squeeze 10lbs of **** into a 5lb package if you get my drift. In other words if your wanting a minimum bore of 4" go with a LQ or LS2 block & the correct supporting parts which are readily available without wondering if things will fit or not.
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Old 03-28-2012, 06:23 PM   #8
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It really depends on ur future goals..give us a number u want to hit and how ur gonna drive it and we can go from there
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Old 03-29-2012, 04:38 PM   #9
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After further investigation i have found that many rebuild shops suggest resleeving the LS1 block over a LS3 or better block unless you go with an LS7 (which i wont).

The LS1 block requires a wet resleeve and costs in the 2,000 usd range.

If i go with a 408 rotating assymbly (4.005 bore and 4.0 stroker) it should push what im looking for. About another 2,000 USD

However lastly, it seems that all of the LSx Model cylinder heads are interchangeable. Most suggest at least an LS3 heads for the ports and size increase but i think i will go LS6 heads with possibly sodium filled valves. About 1300 USD.

Then its just deciding on weather i want to spend the 6-8k on an edelbrock FI system. Because if i do, ill need to swap to an A4 transmission. I have not done my research on the transmissions, but i wonder if the L90 will fit an LS model block?

Am i missing anything?

Eh, its a work in progress. Not like im going to buy it right this minute. Just trying to plan ahead.

Mike
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Old 03-29-2012, 04:52 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ang1dust View Post
After further investigation i have found that many rebuild shops suggest resleeving the LS1 block over a LS3 or better block unless you go with an LS7 (which i wont).

The LS1 block requires a wet resleeve and costs in the 2,000 usd range.

If i go with a 408 rotating assymbly (4.005 bore and 4.0 stroker) it should push what im looking for. About another 2,000 USD

However lastly, it seems that all of the LSx Model cylinder heads are interchangeable. Most suggest at least an LS3 heads for the ports and size increase but i think i will go LS6 heads with possibly sodium filled valves. About 1300 USD.

Then its just deciding on weather i want to spend the 6-8k on an edelbrock FI system. Because if i do, ill need to swap to an A4 transmission. I have not done my research on the transmissions, but i wonder if the L90 will fit an LS model block?

Am i missing anything?

Eh, its a work in progress. Not like im going to buy it right this minute. Just trying to plan ahead.

Mike
I would have to agree with the other guys, there is no sense in resleeving that block when you could buy an ls2 or lq4 block. Those would probably be best especiallly if you are planning on going the F/I route.
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Old 03-29-2012, 08:13 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ang1dust View Post
After further investigation i have found that many rebuild shops suggest resleeving the LS1 block over a LS3 or better block unless you go with an LS7 (which i wont).

The LS1 block requires a wet resleeve and costs in the 2,000 usd range.

If i go with a 408 rotating assymbly (4.005 bore and 4.0 stroker) it should push what im looking for. About another 2,000 USD

However lastly, it seems that all of the LSx Model cylinder heads are interchangeable. Most suggest at least an LS3 heads for the ports and size increase but i think i will go LS6 heads with possibly sodium filled valves. About 1300 USD.

Then its just deciding on weather i want to spend the 6-8k on an edelbrock FI system. Because if i do, ill need to swap to an A4 transmission. I have not done my research on the transmissions, but i wonder if the L90 will fit an LS model block?

Am i missing anything?

Eh, its a work in progress. Not like im going to buy it right this minute. Just trying to plan ahead.

Mike
Wet sleeving a LS1 block typically costs a lot more than $2K when all machining is complete and there would be no reason to only go to a 4 inch bore at this point. Most sleeved blocks can accomodate 4.125 or larger bore - with a 4 inch stroke this makes 427 cubic inches. 4.125 inch bore opens up far better head options as well but in the end you will have $12-15K or so in the engine, probably more than you want to spend. Only things you probably would reuse would be block, covers and oil pan. Block with 242K would not be a great starting point either.

As for longer stroke, the piston pin is located higher in the piston so they stay in the bores.

As suggested above, going to an iron block 408 is probably a great option for you considering all the miles on your existing engine. Many available companies selling short and long block versions that you could easily use. Don't forget to have money for all the other things that go with 408, exhaust, intake, transmission, rear end...... Adds up quickly.

good luck,
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Old 03-30-2012, 12:53 AM   #12
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Look at tsp rotating assembly for the ls2/lq9 blocks. Last I looked you could get the lq9 block from tsp for 750.
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Old 03-30-2012, 08:56 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ang1dust View Post
After further investigation i have found that many rebuild shops suggest resleeving the LS1 block over a LS3 or better block unless you go with an LS7 (which i wont).

The LS1 block requires a wet resleeve and costs in the 2,000 usd range.

If i go with a 408 rotating assymbly (4.005 bore and 4.0 stroker) it should push what im looking for. About another 2,000 USD

However lastly, it seems that all of the LSx Model cylinder heads are interchangeable. Most suggest at least an LS3 heads for the ports and size increase but i think i will go LS6 heads with possibly sodium filled valves. About 1300 USD.

Then its just deciding on weather i want to spend the 6-8k on an edelbrock FI system. Because if i do, ill need to swap to an A4 transmission. I have not done my research on the transmissions, but i wonder if the L90 will fit an LS model block?

Am i missing anything?

Eh, its a work in progress. Not like im going to buy it right this minute. Just trying to plan ahead.

Mike
At the sake of stating the obvious, why dont you just call a forum vendor & get a price shipped on a complete short/long block assembly? I honestly think you'll save cash goin that route, wont have to worry about the things your worryin about & it'll be built right.

And no, not all LS heads are interchangeable. You would not want to stick a LS1 head on a 4.00 bore block unless you like the piston smacking the head & if you toss on a set of heads made for a 4.00 bore block on a 3.898 bore block you'll lose compression which can be beneficial if goin FI. But you still have to watch what heads you use as not all intakes are interchangeable b/c of the port shape on the heads themselves.
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Old 10-25-2012, 09:35 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GNIUS View Post
3 things.

1. Are you sure you have a 58x reluctor? they didnt come out with those until late model ls2s and you have a 2000 ls1. I am pretty sure you have a 24x reluctor unless you physically changed it out.

2. the largest you can bore out a 99+ ls1/ls6 is .010" per GM specifications. 3.908" is your max bore size. only way you can get to a 4.0"+ piston is to resleve the block.

3. the ls2 block is not the same as an ls1 block. there are more differances than just bore size.

good luck with your build.
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Originally Posted by cory32690 View Post
The ls1 block cannot go past 3.905 safely without a resleeve and u need a 24 tooth reluctor
Can i get some clarification here? is max bore size 3.905 or 3.908? If it is 3.905 then I need to go pick my stuff up and find a new engine builder.

Thanks
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Old 10-25-2012, 09:35 AM
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