Timing chain slack
06-05-2012, 12:33 PM
#1
Timing chain slack How much slop is considered acceptable?
I'm doing a cam swap on a '08 5.3 and I've converted from the chain guide to the v shaped block cam tensioner and from a single bolt sprocket to a 3 bolt 2005 GTO sprocket and I have about 1/2" of side to side play in the chain with the stock chain. The motor has less than 60k miles on it.
Common sense tells me to buy a new chain but if they're all going to be like this it doesn't make sense to spend more money on it just to find that out.
I'm used to building ford motors w/ double roller chains and they have little to no slack in them when put together.
I'm doing a cam swap on a '08 5.3 and I've converted from the chain guide to the v shaped block cam tensioner and from a single bolt sprocket to a 3 bolt 2005 GTO sprocket and I have about 1/2" of side to side play in the chain with the stock chain. The motor has less than 60k miles on it.
Common sense tells me to buy a new chain but if they're all going to be like this it doesn't make sense to spend more money on it just to find that out.
I'm used to building ford motors w/ double roller chains and they have little to no slack in them when put together.
06-08-2012, 06:29 AM
#3
How do you figure that? Tightening up the rockers will put pressure on the cam, if anything, pushing it closer to the crank. How will that tighten up the chain?
The reason I ask, is I just bought a new ls2 chain and it has the same amount of slack in it as the original ls1 chain I had. I have had my block modified to run a timing chain damper, but still, the slack in the chain is a concern to me.
06-08-2012, 07:38 AM
#4
I ran into that with my LT1 383. Put a Lunati chain on it and took it apart like 5 k miles later and had the same amount of slack like the original. Ran fine but when I first installed the item, it was tight as hell. It was a single chain.
Maybe the doubles have better luck.
Mine was more then 1/2" so I would live with it, or go to a CR5 chain or something in that range.
Maybe the doubles have better luck.
Mine was more then 1/2" so I would live with it, or go to a CR5 chain or something in that range.
06-08-2012, 08:09 AM
#6
My OEM chain, removed at 30k, had as much slack as a brand new JWIS (single) chain.
It seems that the take up side (cam>crank) is slightly tighter than crank>cam...maybe because the crank drives the cam.
My engine did not come with a dampener, but I just recently added one.
Anyway, if you search timing chain slack, there'll be several threads on the subject.
Oh yeah, and this is an LS1. The dampeners are not made anymore, as far as I know.
You can still purchase one, at a premium ($90), or you can buy a modified LS2 dampener, on ebay, for about $50 delivered.
It seems that the take up side (cam>crank) is slightly tighter than crank>cam...maybe because the crank drives the cam.
My engine did not come with a dampener, but I just recently added one.
Anyway, if you search timing chain slack, there'll be several threads on the subject.
Oh yeah, and this is an LS1. The dampeners are not made anymore, as far as I know.
You can still purchase one, at a premium ($90), or you can buy a modified LS2 dampener, on ebay, for about $50 delivered.
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06-08-2012, 01:30 PM
#9
The more I look at it the more I'm concerned on how repeatable the timing is going to be. turn it back and forth and pull on it and the dots don't line up, come back and spin it a few more times and they do, then they don't. I've checked and rechecked during assembly so i guess its off to buy a new chain. this was supposed to be a budget build. I have almost $2500 in a bullshit 5.3 that still isn't together. I'm about ready to cut my losses and just buy an LS3 and be done with it.
not sure why photobucket shrunk it down like this but here's a quick vid:
not sure why photobucket shrunk it down like this but here's a quick vid:
06-08-2012, 01:42 PM
#11
Well, my engine builder said he talked to Cloyes about a new timing chain and timing set. If that gets rid of the slack, then great, if not, I'm just going to run it like it is. I remember when I did my first cam swap back in 2001 and my car had 10,000 miles on it, my timing chain was the same way back then and it lasted perfectly fine for another 50,000 miles with heads and cam work done to it.
I just think I'm over thinking this.
I just think I'm over thinking this.
06-08-2012, 03:46 PM
#12
Can I piggy back off this thread real quick?
Anyone thought of using the new TEA chain damper? I'm a hair away from pulling the trigger on it and didn't know if any of ^^you guys^^ thought about it or had any insight. I too have an LS2 chain about to go in, and the more threads like this I read, the more hesitant I get.
Thanks guys
Anyone thought of using the new TEA chain damper? I'm a hair away from pulling the trigger on it and didn't know if any of ^^you guys^^ thought about it or had any insight. I too have an LS2 chain about to go in, and the more threads like this I read, the more hesitant I get.
Thanks guys
06-08-2012, 05:19 PM
#13
Can I piggy back off this thread real quick?
Anyone thought of using the new TEA chain damper? I'm a hair away from pulling the trigger on it and didn't know if any of ^^you guys^^ thought about it or had any insight. I too have an LS2 chain about to go in, and the more threads like this I read, the more hesitant I get.
Thanks guys
Anyone thought of using the new TEA chain damper? I'm a hair away from pulling the trigger on it and didn't know if any of ^^you guys^^ thought about it or had any insight. I too have an LS2 chain about to go in, and the more threads like this I read, the more hesitant I get.
Thanks guys
06-08-2012, 05:38 PM
#14
I have the modded LS2 dampener as well.
The chain does have some normal slack.
While the guy who modded the LS2 dampener to make it fit LS1 did a great job, there's something that doesn't look quite right about the angle of the dampener, and the way the crank>cam side of the chain sits against the dampener.
In fact, there's some chain 'clacking' against the plastic, almost as if the chain gets hung up on the plastic. I have a side by side picture of the two of them (unmodded LS1 & normal LS2 dampener) somewhere. The dimensions didn't look the same to me.
As a sideline, the engine ran just fine without the dampener.
Nevertheless, it's in there and no trouble so far.
Just some humor....maybe the modded LS2 damp is a 'self-adjusting' break-in. You wear down the plastic until it DOES fit.
The chain does have some normal slack.
While the guy who modded the LS2 dampener to make it fit LS1 did a great job, there's something that doesn't look quite right about the angle of the dampener, and the way the crank>cam side of the chain sits against the dampener.
In fact, there's some chain 'clacking' against the plastic, almost as if the chain gets hung up on the plastic. I have a side by side picture of the two of them (unmodded LS1 & normal LS2 dampener) somewhere. The dimensions didn't look the same to me.
As a sideline, the engine ran just fine without the dampener.
Nevertheless, it's in there and no trouble so far.
Just some humor....maybe the modded LS2 damp is a 'self-adjusting' break-in. You wear down the plastic until it DOES fit.
06-08-2012, 06:31 PM
#15
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Look a year and half running the plastic LS2 piece running low 10's and 6.4's in the eighth. The car is driven to and from the track it works period. Call SDPC and get the Austrialin (sp) single roller chain and be done with it. Your not turning 8500-10 k and need a belt drive GEEZ.
06-08-2012, 09:39 PM
#17
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Everything I've read on here about t-chains and dampeners(and I've read quite a bit) has taught Me that aside from normal high mileage wear generally the only thing that will threaten the chain is road racing where the engine does most of it's time in the 3000-4500 rpm range ,,,,,,,,,,,somewhere in that range is a bad harmonics spot . And for this application is really the only app that the dampener is needed .
06-09-2012, 06:39 AM
#18
Everything I've read on here about t-chains and dampeners(and I've read quite a bit) has taught Me that aside from normal high mileage wear generally the only thing that will threaten the chain is road racing where the engine does most of it's time in the 3000-4500 rpm range ,,,,,,,,,,,somewhere in that range is a bad harmonics spot . And for this application is really the only app that the dampener is needed .
06-09-2012, 07:30 AM
#19
^^ haha yea, its always good when your car advances your timing by itself!!
but on a serious note, i got the timing chain damper kit from TEA Really nice looking kit for cheap, and i like how you dont have to modify the LS2 damper, the bracket it comes with mounts right to the back of the other bracket......just FYI and something to look into.
I havent installed it yet, because i am waiting on my Heads and cam to get here from Tony Mamo.....
but on a serious note, i got the timing chain damper kit from TEA Really nice looking kit for cheap, and i like how you dont have to modify the LS2 damper, the bracket it comes with mounts right to the back of the other bracket......just FYI and something to look into.
I havent installed it yet, because i am waiting on my Heads and cam to get here from Tony Mamo.....
06-09-2012, 03:30 PM
#20
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My chain had slack in it also. I did plenty searches on tech to find remedies to fix but the only advice i got was that the chain would be fine because the slack is normal. Ok then i install my heads and the valvetrain. As i started torquing my rockers arms my chain tightened up. Took all the slack out. An this was a few weeks ago.
