WAHUSKER

iTrader: (4)

We installed 1.8 Harland Sharp rockers & new 7.4 Manley pushords on my car yesterday & the car doesn't run right. It misses & pops & smells rich. Headers tubes 5, 7 & 8 are cold. The motor is stock.

After firing it up, & finding this, we tore it back apart to verify it was correct. We pulled all the plugs (except #8) and turned to motor to TDC on cyl 1 (using the compression to find it & verifying wiht the rocker arms). Note - the plugs were all soaked with fuel. We found cyl #1 rockers arms were very loose. Odd! So we checked all the other & found 2 intake & 1 exhaust valve that were about 1/8 turn off of torque. So we re-did cyl 1 & put it back together. Same result...maybe ran a little better, but the same header tubes were still cold.

So, I did not verify the inital pre-load was correct. (turn the bolt finger tight, then turn with a ratchet no more than 1 turn to get hand tight, then torque to 22 ft/lbs) A friend that installed the 1.7s on his car did it did it the first time, so I figured it was right. And I don't know that if it was wrong, meaning it needs shims, that we'd get this result.

We machined the intake rocker for cyl 2 initially because it was too close. When we took it apart, I did the same on cyl 7. I checked for codes with my Predator....none. I felt around behind the manifold again, and everything "seems" to be connected. I would think if something was not, the car would throw a code.

So, I figure that there are 3 likely problems. 1 it needs shims....unusual for a stock motor. 2 something is disconnected that I haven't found....I'll look again with my inspection mirror. 3 the coil packs for those 3 cyl's died....now what is the likely hood of that?

Anybody else with any ideas PLEASE chime in. Note - there were about 6 people that know cars here, and none of us could figure it out.

Thanks!

2xLS1

iTrader: (25)

Sounds like you are trying to adjust your rocker arms the old school way. You have a non adjustable valve train unless you bought adjustable rockers. You are tightening the rocker pedistal flush with the head on a LS1. Forger all the 1 turn stuff and tighten all the rocker arm bolts tight to 22 ft lbs. The fact that you had loose rockers when you rechecked says you never tightened the pedistal to the head. Also, I don't think I'd be upping the rocker ratio with stock valve springs either.

boomcase

I agree with 2xLs1 they are non adjustable , and you are gonna need new valve springs.

soundengineer

iTrader: (16)

fuel soaked plugs???

sounds to me like to are not getting spark....did you accidentally forget to reconnect some wires?? or the coil packs??
or did you accidentally break a wire somewhere??? tesy your wires...make sure they are good...test all connections....

like I said...If you are getting fuel soaked plugs...then you are not getting sparks...quit screwing with the rockes...put them to 22ft/lbs(or whatever the harland guys reccommend)..turn the engine...do it again as a double check....

WAHUSKER

iTrader: (4)

Nate @ Nasty just called me & gave me a new way to adj the preload. But he agreed that first I need to check the spark. We were going to last night, but at 1 AM, the ambition was withering. If I do have spark, then it almost has to be either the valves are staying open allowing fuel to be sucked in, or I have a vacuum leak that is making the PCM dump fuel (even tho I've checked the hoses 20 times). Both would make it run / act this way.

Blacker

iTrader: (3)

What was the new way of adjusting the preload?

WAHUSKER

iTrader: (4)

Reading the Yella Terra instr on LS!HowTo.com, it says

use a 10mm socket and extension but NO SOCKET WRENCH, and finger tighten the rocker arm bolts until both of the bolts get too tough to spin with 2 fingers. You can take your index finger and try to spin the pushrod under the rocker arms as well, and it should have some friction on it and just barely spin, if spin at all. This is called "Zero Lash".....NOW, get your socket wrench out and attach it to the 10mm socket+extension you were using. Without turning the bolt AT ALL, place the wrench in the 12 o'clock position. What we have to do is count the bolt turns until the instant the bolt gets hand tight. Turn each of the two bolts 90 degrees clockwise, then set the wrench at 12 o'clock and repeat (do each bolt one 1/4 turn, and keep alternating).....each 1/4 turn per bolt seems to equate about 10-12 thousandths preload (this is a very rough guess!). If you get MORE than 1 full 360 degree turn on each bolt, remove the rockers and install the shims...Once the rocker arms are all seated, get your torque wrench out and set it to 22lb/ft and torque all 16 rocker arm bolts to 22lb/ft.

Nate said do this

Get them tight enough that the pushrod just doesn't spin. This is "Zero Lash". (makes sense) Then get out the torque wrench & tighten them to 22ft/lbs. If it turns more than 1 turn, 1 1/2 max for my setup, I need shims.

Bottom line, I could have turned them x turns too much. Because after getting them to Zero Lash I never paid any attention to how many turns it took to get them torqued. Which is what you are concerned with!

Now maybe I'm the only one that misundertands those LS1HowTo intructions, but Nate's way seems MUCH simpler to get right. I just pray I didn't bend any valves!

Blacker

iTrader: (3)

I was installing mine and takes 1.75 turns to reach 22ft-lbs from zero lash. I guess I need shims eventhough the heads have never been removed.

WAHUSKER

iTrader: (4)

I definitely need shims. I used .050 washers (per Nate's suggestio) & that seems to be good for that. But now the rockers hit the valve covers. We're working that now to see if it will actually run.

That was it. After shimming the rockers, modifying the valve covers & replacing all my plugs it runs fine....

steve-d

iTrader: (7)

Hi all,
I was getting ready to install these HS rockers.

I spoke to the tech man at HS (I believe he's a son or relative of the founder). He indicated its best to (1) get to the pre load point where the Push Rod is difficult to move w/your finger. The zero lash point. (2) Then count the number of turns it takes to get to the tight point. Stock motors should be, according to him, approx 1 to 1 1/4 turns. He said he designed them to mount and tighten as would a stock rocker. Then torque them to the 22ft/lb rating.

He indicated if they required more than 1 1/2 turns to initially tighten past the preload point, then you'd need shims. Nothing more than thin washers.

If you have a head that's been milled for compression purposes, it may require shims.

Unfortunately, he offered no promises regarding rocker to valve cover clearances when using shims.

I only hope I don't need to use shims or deal w/rocker to valve cover interference.

Regards
Steve

WAHUSKER

iTrader: (4)

IMO these instructions are hard to follow & get right. You almost have to know what it feels like when it's right, to recognize what it feels like when it's wrong. I have 3 suggestions for anyone that is going to do this mod.

When taking the motor apart, run one cyl to TDC (doesnt' matter which one) and loosen the rocker arm(s). Then tighten them down like the instructions say, and then torque them to 22ft/lbs. Now you'll know what it's supposed to feel like.

Then when you install the new ones, follow the intructions. Finger tight, then tighten it....when the pedastal hits the stop, you should feel it. Then torque it. This step should take no more than 1 1/2 turns either! At this point, lossen it again & WATCH THE SPRING. If it comes up at all you need shims.

To check the valve cover clearance remove the gasket & hold the cover firmly on the motor & turn it over. You will feel & hear it if the rocker arms are hitting. If you can't see any marks on the inside, color it with a magic marker & do it again to see where your interfences are.

Oh, and if you're doing the 1.8s, get new springs. The stock ones will not handle it.