chawin

Hi Everyone, Ive spent many many hours/days researching with the result of lots of knowledge but still no prevail to a solid plan. Sorry if some of this is repetitive but I am looking for a straight forward answer. I have also read all of the Sticky's for knowledge as well. Anyways its winter and I want to make the car a little funner for this coming summer.

I have a 2000 T/A LS1 M6. Im assuming I have the 241 heads but I havent verified that yet so they may be the 853's or whatever the earlier heads were.

My goal is to make 400hp or close to it, im not going to be bummed if it only makes 385 or 390 but that 400hp would be awesome!!! I do want to keep this on a budget but the funds are available if I need to spend them... I only want to make 400Horse not 500+ and the 400 sounds pretty easily attainable on a small budget. This will be my summer daily driver as I cannot resist driving it compared to driving my Grand Prix GT. So I want to keep it very streetable with the decent fuel mileage I already get out of it (28-30 mpg highway) I know its a muscle machine and fuel mileage really is not my concern but it sure is nice if I can maintain it.

Currently the car has a
-Borla (tuneable) cat back
-Lid
-the rest is stock except for the Tick Master and clutch.

Planned already is(awaiting purchase/install):
-LS6 Intake
-Ported/polished stock Throttle body
-Long tube headers
-Cat less Y-pipe most likely 2.5"
-A dyno tune by a reputable shop

Above is my original plan but I really want close to that 400hp and if I do the above and go through all the time for the tune and can only get 350hp or so out of it im gonna be bummed and wish I did cam/heads as well and I will end up doing that and go through the whole tuning process again which why do things twice.

So I have been doing lots of research and sounds like my above plans may not quite get me to or close to the 400hp OR WILL IT??? (please answer)

So to get me there it will be heads and Cam to add to the above power adders. When I bought the car I really wanted to leave it unmolested and leave it factory but that idea fizzled out. But Like I said above I want to keep it street and daily driver friendly. I dont want to mess around with surging and bucking while just cruising or hard starts and not looking for a hugely choppy idle. Id like to maintain the 800rpm idle and be able to cruise the parking lot with little hassle. I dont want to regret my cam choice with wishing that I wouldve went bigger or regret that I wish I wouldve went smaller. Ive listened to youtube videos and sounds like the Torquer 2 is real popular and streetable and honestly that one is almost too choppy at idle for me but I know that there would NOT be one day that I would hate it either. So is this what everyone would suggest for a cam to attain my 400hp goal (with the above add ons and heads if need be)??? (please answer) or is there another cam out there that may not be quite as choppy that will easily get me to my goal (tick performance, comp cams, speed shop cams)???

Next would be heads:
will my stock heads with the cam and above add ons get me to the 400 hp range?? (please answer) Or should I upgrade. I do not want to spend $1200+ on heads... the most im willing to pay is $500 on heads whether that is on some 243's or a port and polish on the ones that came with the car. But why spend the money if the ones already on it will get me to the 400hp mark. But I would hate to already be so far into dissassembly and get it together and to the dyno and I only pull 360hp out of it and if I wouldve done heads then I would have hit the 400Hp mark. So which direction should I go with the not any more than $500 budget for heads? (please answer) Should I purchase 243's since they are going quite cheap and possibly port and polish those? or should I take my 241's (assuming) and port and polish those?? or should I just leave the heads alone all together and be confident that with the cam and above power adders that I will hit the 400hp mark?? (or close to it)

When do the cam I will be doing springs and push rods with the knowledge that the factory ones are just barely sufficient for factory components.

My plan was Beehive springs and just hardened push rods.

Lets say I went with that Torquer 2 cam would I have to change lifters or rockers? Are the push rods going to have to be a different length from the factory push rods... I know These are questions I can ask Texas Speed but maybe someone knows off the top of their head???

So to get my 400 Horse what out of all the stuff above is needed and not needed or is it perfect? What brand/size springs would you suggest?

So will this list get me to the 400hp?
-LS6 Intake
-Ported/polished stock Throttle body
-Long tube headers
-Cat less Y-pipe most likely 2.5"
-A dyno tune by a reputable shop
-Lid
-Cat back Borla
*im assuming not so will the addition of a cam (torquer 2 or other suggestions) get me there?
*or will I need the heads too to get me there??? If so what do you all suggest I do with the heads... Port/Polish my stock ones on the car? Get 243's or will I have to port polish those as well? Any other suggestion for heads that isnt far off from $500 budget for heads? or will my 241's or the 243's get the job done?

-Will I need to do a cam to hit my goal?
-Will I need heads with the cam to hit my goal or will stock heads do it?
-Is the torquer 2 the most suggested cam for what I want (not too choppy, easily streetable/parking lots/daily driver, maintain fuel mileage, 400HP) or is there another off the shelf cam that will better suit my needs and hit that 400hp?
-I will do all the work myself
-Daily driver, will prob never see the drag strip and if so just on a Street legal Wed. night but prob. not but may see a pull here and there if some hot shot wants to test a F-body or if I just have the need for speed.

Thank you for the help everyone!!

HCI2000SS

iTrader: (2)

Wow man..that's one hell of a post lol First let me ask, are you looking for 400 rwhp or crank hp? Regardless, remember one important thing here...dynos can vary big time, so don't get hung up on a particular number. If you do all that you mentioned above (minus the heads and cam) you will be around 400 crank hp. Heads and cam will put you another 50-100 hp over that...give or take. I run the Torquer 2 btw, and it is a great cam IMO, but depending on your exhaust setup, mufflers, idle, etc...it will be pretty choppy for the most part

chawin

Thanks for the reply! I wanted to be clear and put everything out on the table cause Ive noticed most people leave many variables open to question so I tried my best to clear those up. I am looking for 400rwhp. Ive also watched many you tube videos of people who have used the cam and most people who do everything that I listed including the cam but used the factory heads that come with the car hit that 400rwhp mark or 10+/- rwhp of it. I seen a few who left the ls1 throttle body and intake and were still hitting 380rwhp which I am definitely going ls6 intake regardless. So I feel confident if I ported the heads or went with stock 243's id be well at the 400+rwhp mark. One guy did all the above that I plan on doing and went stock 243 heads and was 433rwhp. Id be happy with the 390-410rwhp and just on the fence if I can get that with the stock ls1 heads and as far as what I saw on the Youtube videos of dyno runs guys were nailing that even with the ls1 intake.

HCI2000SS

iTrader: (2)

Yeah i'm sure that's the norm out there, but you never know lol. Take my car for instance...it made 405 rwhp on one dynojet, and 460 rwhp on another dynojet. Now if I only had stock heads on the 405 rwhp dyno run, i'd probably be like 370-380 rwhp lol. I'm just saying regardless of whatever number you produce, i'm sure it will run strong as long as there is a decent tune in it.

99Bluz28

iTrader: (35)

I'd get the heads ported and milled, that way you can run a smaller cam(230 or smaller)that would give better driveability.

Gunslinger09

What is your stock number now as it sits? You need a baseline to know where you are starting from. Also have you had the car on the track? Do you know what your ET/MPH is? The reason I ask is because the dyno is a tuning tool and as was stated above they vary a lot. If you add an Ls6 intake, headers and tune you should put down 340-350 RWHP on most Dynojet dynos as long as they are set up correctly. You will need to add a cam to get closer to 400 at the wheels. You can get 400 with just a cam swap but it will cost you some driveability because the cam will need to be pretty large. Heads and cam will get you over 400 and allow you to keep your road manners.

Tainted

iTrader: (9)

2.5" y pipe is too small and they suck.

Buy a real merge collector, like flowmaster or magnaflow. Then have a shop fit it together so youve got a great fit, way better sound and flow for not much more

chawin

Thanks for the feedback! I have not had a chance to do a baseline (dyno or track) due to I was not planning on anything more than a LS6 intake and ported throttle body during the driving season and I didnt necessarily care about numbers then... But now we are at the last couple months of ideas in my head and the T/A sleeping in the garage and now I have more of a numbers goal. After I had posted the original thread here earlier today I figured out that I meant 3" catless Y pipe not 2.5". I do have that 400rwhp number in mind but will not be devastated if it falls short of that due to the difference in dyno's or just because the car isnt pushing it. I do want to set up the car to the point where many other ls1 owners have proven that the parts manifest has produced numbers at that 400rwhp mark +/-10rwhp. After the more reviews ive read about the Torquer V2 cam and many testimonies of it being easily streetable I have kind of decided that it is in 1st place unless someone can sway me to a different cam. I have fallen for that choppy lope of it as well... Reminds me of a 79' monte carlo I had with a built 355 that just loped and intimidated everyone... but I was also only getting 9mpg with that car being really nice.
So with the:
-LS6 Intake
-Lid
-Ported/polished stock Throttle body
-Long tube headers
-Cat less Y-pipe 3"
-Borla cat back 3"
-Torquer V2 cam (new springs and pushrods)
-A dyno tune by a reputable shop
Would it be typical with the above upgrades that I am close/or at the 400rwhp mark on majority of dyno's even if the dyno that I tune on shows less? Have many proven that the above manifest of upgrades has put down close or at the 400rwhp mark??

-Basically am I really going to fall short of my goal if I run the stock heads or should I go with the 243's or should I port/polish my stock 241's or should I leave them alone and I should hit close to my goal?? If its been proven many times that my above manifest of upgrades (no upgrade to heads) typically brings numbers close to 400rwhp then I am happy with that and not going to bother with the heads. I will do heads if with my above manifest alone will most likely been proven to fall short of my goal. I realize I could do everything including heads and still fall short of 400rwhp on my local dyno (which is why I wish I had a baseline but its snowing and salt where I live currently) but Im hoping with others experience and personal results that I can be led in a proven direction where they have witnessed what will get that LS1 close to that 400rwhp with many others on many different dyno's.

Will my above manifest (without heads) get me to 400rwhp or will I have to do the heads too is my dilemma??
Also, any suggestions to change anything on my above manifest (cam brand/sizes, intake etc.)????

chawin

Basically some of my concern is my setup without the heads a typical setup to yield 400rwhp or is that out of the question without doing heads?? Im aware my local dyno may very much vary in the results like HCI2000 did above (405 compared to 460) but im thinking just the typical community out there what are they getting with a similar setup to what I have planned.

Other concern- TorquerV2 a good cam to go with or is there any other suggestions of a cam that will get me to the goal as well?

Tainted

iTrader: (9)

pick up a set of LS6 heads and mill them for some compression. That should allow you to easily hit your 400rwhp goal/

also for a cam I liked my 228R on the street

chawin

Thank you for the suggestion... I am now starting to lean more and more toward the 243 heads. You guys think just milling them and not worrying about a port/polish would be sufficient?

Gunslinger09

Mill and an a valve job at a minimum. Your machinist may cut you a deal on porting if you have it all done at once.

Tainted

iTrader: (9)

if you can afford it for sure. but just the 243 castings along are a step up from the ls1 heads.

if you can really swing it, look at TEA or AI for having your head work done.

chawin

Perfect, Im going to have to get on the phone and find a reputable machinist and get some quotes. I originally didnt want to stick money into heads but after installing all the other parts and be that far into engine dissassembly I might as well only do it once and not twice. Milling shouldnt be too expensive but the heads look like the going rate is $400-500 and prob. another easy $500 into porting and I dont if I can swing that or if it would even be necessary to hit my 400rwhp goal. I want the thing to breathe with that cam so the intake, heads and long tubes sound like a must to get the full potential of the cam and to do it correct the first time. I only want to do a dyno tune once and then just drive it. I dont want to keep piecing it together and every time doing a tune. So im thinking some milled 243's with my above manifest of parts will definitely get me to my 400rwhp mark? I wish my stock 241's would get me to that 400rwhp mark... any thoughts on that? maybe stick a little money into the 241's compared to spending the money on the 243's or not touch the 241's at all and the 241's should typically get me to the 400 rwhp mark?

justin hover

Man...your talking big big$$$ If your not doing all the work, than I'd take my time to find a reputable shop that will...and not bend you over in the process. Don't neglect your suspension btw.

chawin

Im doing all of the work, I have over a decade of head mechanic under my belt and completed many engine rebuilds down to every last bolt. But I am not a cam specialist and just want a proven combination to net my power goals so no better place to ask than the people who have already done trial and errors and found what works to net that kind of rwhp.

chawin

Also the suspension has been worked, Bushings and springs etc have been done... Will be in the market for a rear end eventually. Im not too worried as I dont drive it like I stole it and it will never see slicks and I dont drag race... Just see a pull every once in a while... Merging onto the interstate, a hot shot thinks his car is fast etc.

arock24

iTrader: (4)

I didn't see it mentioned but I would recommend some subframe connectors as well

chawin

arock- I see that your setup isnt too far off from mine with the exception that you are an auto. Have you dynoed? what was your numbers if you dont mind?

arock24

iTrader: (4)

I'm actually wrapping up my final tune this weekend and upgrading injectors, hopefully. I'm only about 1200 miles into my h/c swap. There's 2 other camaros with almost identical setups to mine locally and the auto put down 423/416..I believe the m6 was around 435/420ish. I have the same tuner as they did, so I'm expecting similar numbers.