How would you spend 13 grand?
03-18-2013, 08:19 PM
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How would you spend 13 grand? Hello, my name is Thomas and I work at an auto repair shop in Arizona. Today we had a customer come in with a 1999 Camaro LS1 Automatic. He apparently heard about us from a transmission shop that put a built transmission in his car. He told us he has "$13,000" to put into the car to go fast, be loud and he wants use to do the research. This causes a slight problem as the shop is full of Ford guys and we don't have experience in anything other then fixing Chevy's, not necessarily making them speedy.
After a quick Google search I didn't find much in the way of a "complete" supercharger setup. I think I've heard that the LS motors are better made into a N/A monster as opposed to the Ford Modular forced induction I'm use to.
So my questions are:
1) Can we do a Cam, head, intake header back exhaust without pulling the motor and doing a built bottom end? The guy never gave us a certain HP or quarter mile time as a goal. I think he just cares about the butt dyno.
2) What companies sell these products that you guys recommend? What setup would you guys recommend?
3) Tuning, I may have a guy that can dyno tune local. However, like the Ford world, I know there may be guys who do tuning that may be better then a local tuner. Do we have to buy HPTuners to have someone do a tune? I think I've heard you have to physically send the PCM to a tuner to have it bench tuned?
4) Fuel system, If we go the head, cams, header back, and all the goodies, what needs to be done with Injectors, fuel pump and fuel rails?
What I was generally thinking was possibly Longtube headers with some sort of loud exhaust (like he wants). Probably some better aftermarket heads with better valve springs and larger valves. I would like to put a cam with some lope in it too but doesn't adversely affect drivability as I think this guy would really get a kick out of it. I'm not sure what to do about injectors or fuel setup but that can be fixed up too. Possibly like a FAST intake or some other recommended setup. Better throttle body and air intake setup too if those help on these motors.
Any general advice would help. Before you say
I apologize that I don't really have the time to deeply search through all the threads for this possibly common information. Also, I realize he said he had $13000 to spend including install, but I would like to try to guide him into possibly getting a car quick while keeping money for gas.
Thanks for the help!
After a quick Google search I didn't find much in the way of a "complete" supercharger setup. I think I've heard that the LS motors are better made into a N/A monster as opposed to the Ford Modular forced induction I'm use to.
So my questions are:
1) Can we do a Cam, head, intake header back exhaust without pulling the motor and doing a built bottom end? The guy never gave us a certain HP or quarter mile time as a goal. I think he just cares about the butt dyno.
2) What companies sell these products that you guys recommend? What setup would you guys recommend?
3) Tuning, I may have a guy that can dyno tune local. However, like the Ford world, I know there may be guys who do tuning that may be better then a local tuner. Do we have to buy HPTuners to have someone do a tune? I think I've heard you have to physically send the PCM to a tuner to have it bench tuned?
4) Fuel system, If we go the head, cams, header back, and all the goodies, what needs to be done with Injectors, fuel pump and fuel rails?
What I was generally thinking was possibly Longtube headers with some sort of loud exhaust (like he wants). Probably some better aftermarket heads with better valve springs and larger valves. I would like to put a cam with some lope in it too but doesn't adversely affect drivability as I think this guy would really get a kick out of it. I'm not sure what to do about injectors or fuel setup but that can be fixed up too. Possibly like a FAST intake or some other recommended setup. Better throttle body and air intake setup too if those help on these motors.
Any general advice would help. Before you say
I apologize that I don't really have the time to deeply search through all the threads for this possibly common information. Also, I realize he said he had $13000 to spend including install, but I would like to try to guide him into possibly getting a car quick while keeping money for gas.Thanks for the help!
03-18-2013, 08:36 PM
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Thats asking alot...you don't have to search threw all the threads....just read the stickys in each of the.sections that apply to this build. Not that I have alot of mods....but I all done all mine in what I would consider proper order within 3yrs all from this site..members help and sponsers. Complete intake/exhaust...stall converter ( a must ) heads cam...rear end and some suspension should eat up some of that budget..
03-18-2013, 08:55 PM
#3
-TSP Heads/Cam Kit
-TSP LT's, ORY
-FAST 92/92
-Few other bolt ons that are not worth typing
-100WHP wet shot
On the motor that's a solid 450WHP car, and on the bottle that is a solid 550WHP with over 600WTQ.
If the guy plans on tracking the car, it will need a rear end. I have been dealing with my ten bolt so far since I don;t really track my car, but I do run it on Mickey Thompson's probably on a bi-weekly basis. The mods listed here alone are about 10k if you do everything properly (i.e. Katech rod bolts, Comp Cams trunion upgrade, etc.) I am assuming the rest would go in your pocket. P.S. drop the k-frame to do all this, it will seem like you are doing extra work, but it will be worth it, been there.
-TSP LT's, ORY
-FAST 92/92
-Few other bolt ons that are not worth typing
-100WHP wet shot
On the motor that's a solid 450WHP car, and on the bottle that is a solid 550WHP with over 600WTQ.
If the guy plans on tracking the car, it will need a rear end. I have been dealing with my ten bolt so far since I don;t really track my car, but I do run it on Mickey Thompson's probably on a bi-weekly basis. The mods listed here alone are about 10k if you do everything properly (i.e. Katech rod bolts, Comp Cams trunion upgrade, etc.) I am assuming the rest would go in your pocket. P.S. drop the k-frame to do all this, it will seem like you are doing extra work, but it will be worth it, been there.
03-18-2013, 08:57 PM
#4
You don't need to bother researching.
Go to www.texas-speed.com
They will be able to hook you up with a complete package and tell you what power #s to expect.
In all honestly...If I have 13K, it wouldn't go into a LS1. More like towards an LS3 or LS7. I'm not very happy with the power I have with the LS1...I wish I was closer to 600hp.
Go to www.texas-speed.com
They will be able to hook you up with a complete package and tell you what power #s to expect.
In all honestly...If I have 13K, it wouldn't go into a LS1. More like towards an LS3 or LS7. I'm not very happy with the power I have with the LS1...I wish I was closer to 600hp.
03-18-2013, 08:59 PM
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Honestly if you have no experience building an ls1 to go fast then I would refer the customer to another shop who does, Not to knock your shop but I would never have a shop without experience in my application build my car thats for sure.
If you intend to give it a shot I would dive deeper into the customers goals with the car.
For tuning your absolute best bet is local lsx tuner NicD, I have a fairly mild n/a setup and run 11.00 here in az on a stock bottom end.
If you need any local help or advise feel free to pm me.
If you intend to give it a shot I would dive deeper into the customers goals with the car.
For tuning your absolute best bet is local lsx tuner NicD, I have a fairly mild n/a setup and run 11.00 here in az on a stock bottom end.
If you need any local help or advise feel free to pm me.
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03-18-2013, 09:32 PM
#8
seriously tho, when I bought mine it had full exhaust and ls6 intake. For me to go faster I did the rear first. Could have done a head/cam package for that but what good is the power if you can't put it down without breaking the 10 bolt. but he could probably get all that plus LS6 intake if he doesn't already, or a Fast. So many options there but I would recommend the rear for sure. It's auto so could go 12 bolt or 9 in.
03-18-2013, 09:56 PM
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First thing first, since its old it has a 24x reluctor wheel so make sure everything you look at is compatible to get the most and for the buck! To this day, for NA, there is still no replacement for displacement! Go big! With some combos below you could easily crest 550-600 RWHP.
A few ideas:
Full package, heads, cams, intakes go to:
Texas Speed- http://www.texas-speed.com/c-7-98-02...rebird-v8.aspx
To part it together:
Blocks:
http://www.racingenginedesign.com/
And
http://www.erlperformance.com/gm-ls-...e-short-blocks
Heads: Make sure to get LS3/7 heads! If you don't go Texas Speed, use these
http://www.mastmotorsports.com/2010/...0-%20Assembled
Fast TB& Intake:
http://www.fuelairspark.com/2/FS/Intake/Default.aspx
And headers.
A few ideas:
Full package, heads, cams, intakes go to:
Texas Speed- http://www.texas-speed.com/c-7-98-02...rebird-v8.aspx
To part it together:
Blocks:
http://www.racingenginedesign.com/
And
http://www.erlperformance.com/gm-ls-...e-short-blocks
Heads: Make sure to get LS3/7 heads! If you don't go Texas Speed, use these
http://www.mastmotorsports.com/2010/...0-%20Assembled
Fast TB& Intake:
http://www.fuelairspark.com/2/FS/Intake/Default.aspx
And headers.
03-18-2013, 09:56 PM
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First thing first, since its old it has a 24x reluctor wheel so make sure everything you look at is compatible to get the most and for the buck! To this day, for NA, there is still no replacement for displacement! Go big! With some combos below you could easily crest 550-600 RWHP.
A few ideas:
Full package, heads, cams, intakes go to:
Texas Speed- http://www.texas-speed.com/c-7-98-02...rebird-v8.aspx
To part it together:
Blocks:
http://www.racingenginedesign.com/
And
http://www.erlperformance.com/gm-ls-...e-short-blocks
Heads: Make sure to get LS3/7 heads! If you don't go Texas Speed, use these
http://www.mastmotorsports.com/2010/...0-%20Assembled
Fast TB& Intake:
http://www.fuelairspark.com/2/FS/Intake/Default.aspx
And headers.
A few ideas:
Full package, heads, cams, intakes go to:
Texas Speed- http://www.texas-speed.com/c-7-98-02...rebird-v8.aspx
To part it together:
Blocks:
http://www.racingenginedesign.com/
And
http://www.erlperformance.com/gm-ls-...e-short-blocks
Heads: Make sure to get LS3/7 heads! If you don't go Texas Speed, use these
http://www.mastmotorsports.com/2010/...0-%20Assembled
Fast TB& Intake:
http://www.fuelairspark.com/2/FS/Intake/Default.aspx
And headers.
03-18-2013, 10:07 PM
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Re-thinking this, he will need a stout Trans, stout rear end and a good stall, and that alone will run some 5-6K. So, we're talking about 7-8 for the motor. It may be best to go with a 402/408 cathedral port headed beast. You could still run 500-520 RWHP NA with the capability of NOS.
Engine thoughts alone:
ERL Shortblock ~$3700
PRC237/AFR 235~ $2400
Fast 102wTB~ $1600
Engine thoughts alone:
ERL Shortblock ~$3700
PRC237/AFR 235~ $2400
Fast 102wTB~ $1600
03-18-2013, 10:08 PM
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-TSP Heads/Cam Kit
-TSP LT's, ORY
-FAST 92/92
-Few other bolt ons that are not worth typing
-100WHP wet shot
On the motor that's a solid 450WHP car, and on the bottle that is a solid 550WHP with over 600WTQ.
If the guy plans on tracking the car, it will need a rear end. I have been dealing with my ten bolt so far since I don;t really track my car, but I do run it on Mickey Thompson's probably on a bi-weekly basis. The mods listed here alone are about 10k if you do everything properly (i.e. Katech rod bolts, Comp Cams trunion upgrade, etc.) I am assuming the rest would go in your pocket. P.S. drop the k-frame to do all this, it will seem like you are doing extra work, but it will be worth it, been there.
-TSP LT's, ORY
-FAST 92/92
-Few other bolt ons that are not worth typing
-100WHP wet shot
On the motor that's a solid 450WHP car, and on the bottle that is a solid 550WHP with over 600WTQ.
If the guy plans on tracking the car, it will need a rear end. I have been dealing with my ten bolt so far since I don;t really track my car, but I do run it on Mickey Thompson's probably on a bi-weekly basis. The mods listed here alone are about 10k if you do everything properly (i.e. Katech rod bolts, Comp Cams trunion upgrade, etc.) I am assuming the rest would go in your pocket. P.S. drop the k-frame to do all this, it will seem like you are doing extra work, but it will be worth it, been there.
Honestly if you have no experience building an ls1 to go fast then I would refer the customer to another shop who does, Not to knock your shop but I would never have a shop without experience in my application build my car thats for sure.
If you intend to give it a shot I would dive deeper into the customers goals with the car.
For tuning your absolute best bet is local lsx tuner NicD, I have a fairly mild n/a setup and run 11.00 here in az on a stock bottom end.
If you need any local help or advise feel free to pm me.
If you intend to give it a shot I would dive deeper into the customers goals with the car.
For tuning your absolute best bet is local lsx tuner NicD, I have a fairly mild n/a setup and run 11.00 here in az on a stock bottom end.
If you need any local help or advise feel free to pm me.
seriously tho, when I bought mine it had full exhaust and ls6 intake. For me to go faster I did the rear first. Could have done a head/cam package for that but what good is the power if you can't put it down without breaking the 10 bolt. but he could probably get all that plus LS6 intake if he doesn't already, or a Fast. So many options there but I would recommend the rear for sure. It's auto so could go 12 bolt or 9 in.
I appreciate all your replies.
03-18-2013, 10:14 PM
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Re-thinking this, he will need a stout Trans, stout rear end and a good stall, and that alone will run some 5-6K. So, we're talking about 7-8 for the motor. It may be best to go with a 402/408 cathedral port headed beast. You could still run 500-520 RWHP NA with the capability of NOS.
Engine thoughts alone:
ERL Shortblock ~$3700
PRC237/AFR 235~ $2400
Fast 102wTB~ $1600
Engine thoughts alone:
ERL Shortblock ~$3700
PRC237/AFR 235~ $2400
Fast 102wTB~ $1600
03-18-2013, 10:57 PM
#16
yep, a cam install is $1500-$2000 in labor if your a decent sized shop. plus a $400 dyno tune
I would talk to your customer and sit down and find out exactly what he wants, call a vendor on here and tell them your goals and what you want to give your customer...
And they should help you with everything and then you can figure labor at your place and try and keep everything in budget..
shouldnt be too hard if you plan everything out...
I would talk to your customer and sit down and find out exactly what he wants, call a vendor on here and tell them your goals and what you want to give your customer...
And they should help you with everything and then you can figure labor at your place and try and keep everything in budget..
shouldnt be too hard if you plan everything out...
03-19-2013, 12:04 AM
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Honestly if you have no experience building an ls1 to go fast then I would refer the customer to another shop who does, Not to knock your shop but I would never have a shop without experience in my application build my car thats for sure.
If you intend to give it a shot I would dive deeper into the customers goals with the car.
For tuning your absolute best bet is local lsx tuner NicD, I have a fairly mild n/a setup and run 11.00 here in az on a stock bottom end.
If you need any local help or advise feel free to pm me.
If you intend to give it a shot I would dive deeper into the customers goals with the car.
For tuning your absolute best bet is local lsx tuner NicD, I have a fairly mild n/a setup and run 11.00 here in az on a stock bottom end.
If you need any local help or advise feel free to pm me.
03-19-2013, 07:11 AM
#18
