Pics Of My Advanced Induction Dart/RHS 223cc Heads/Build Thread
11-11-2013, 08:40 PM
#201
Car still has the factory LS6 intake and un-ported TB. Full list of mods are in my signature. The second pull was the best one, which yielded 415rwhp and 381rwtq. Numbers are SAE. The guy said that the tune from 4000rpms to about 5500rpms needs some work, as the line was "wavy" (can't remember the exact term he used). He also said the car was running rich. Again, the tune itself was simply a street tune with WOT tunning being done on the street.
He said that a bone stock 05 GTO (LS2) put down 330rwhp on his dyno, so you can use that for comparison. I'm not even sure what a bone stock LS2 normally puts down.
Again, not too happy. I was expecting at least 430rwhp. I've got to find out what is up. Others running this same cam and ported LS6 heads are putting down 430 to 440 rwhp on dynojets.
I will get the dyno graphs up tomorrow at work. I've got two different graphs with the 3 pulls; one is Engine Speed (RPMx1000) and the other is Seed (MPH). On the Speed (MPH) graph, I only got one good torque reading, which was 376.97. The other two were way off due to a tach signal issue. On the Engine Speed (RPMx1000) graph, it gave accurate TQ readings for all 3 runs. Not sure what is up with that. Also, all 3 pulls were made to 6500 rpms.
He said that a bone stock 05 GTO (LS2) put down 330rwhp on his dyno, so you can use that for comparison. I'm not even sure what a bone stock LS2 normally puts down.
Again, not too happy. I was expecting at least 430rwhp. I've got to find out what is up. Others running this same cam and ported LS6 heads are putting down 430 to 440 rwhp on dynojets.
I will get the dyno graphs up tomorrow at work. I've got two different graphs with the 3 pulls; one is Engine Speed (RPMx1000) and the other is Seed (MPH). On the Speed (MPH) graph, I only got one good torque reading, which was 376.97. The other two were way off due to a tach signal issue. On the Engine Speed (RPMx1000) graph, it gave accurate TQ readings for all 3 runs. Not sure what is up with that. Also, all 3 pulls were made to 6500 rpms.
Last edited by Rise of the Phoenix; 11-11-2013 at 09:13 PM.
11-11-2013, 09:16 PM
#205
TECH Resident
iTrader: (4)
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Nashville, TN
Posts: 879
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Get a FAST 102 and 102 tb, and find a good tuner with a dyno and wideband. The ls6 is holding those heads and cam back more than you may think. From what others have found a stock ls6 really can't support heads flowing past ~270cfm. Your heads should be at least 15hp better than mine, but my combo also isn't hamstrung by a small intake.
Jason.
Jason.
11-11-2013, 09:22 PM
#206
TECH Senior Member
iTrader: (2)
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Howell & Fenton MI
Posts: 11,145
Likes: 0
Received 15 Likes
on
15 Posts
OP even though the tune may be off a tad, I wouldn't strees the dyno numbers. My old LS1 setup was a great example. On one dynojet it made 405 rwhp, and on another dynojet it made 460 rwhp. See what I mean lol
11-11-2013, 10:00 PM
#207
Yeah, I know the dyno numbers don't mean a lot, but at the same time, I'm not going to lie that I was pretty devastated after I made the first pull and he yelled out, "411". I need to get to the track and see what she traps, which will give me a better understanding of where the car truly is at. Since that probably won't happen before the end of the year, I may just mark off a 1/4 mile of the highway and go out there and do it.
The car was strictly dyno'd today; 3 pulls with no tuning. The car was street tuned right after the build.
I know that I need a better intake. The flow numbers for these heads are way over what the LS6 intake can support. With that said, I'm not so sure that I'm not going to go with a Super Vic and 4150 TB setup instead of a FAST. I'll keep looking for a used/cheap FAST setup, as that's the only way buy a FAST setup.
I think come spring, I'm going to take the car to get dyno tuned by one of the premiere LSx shops. I just wish I didn't live so damn far away from Tick, or I'd have them do the tuning.
The car was strictly dyno'd today; 3 pulls with no tuning. The car was street tuned right after the build.
I know that I need a better intake. The flow numbers for these heads are way over what the LS6 intake can support. With that said, I'm not so sure that I'm not going to go with a Super Vic and 4150 TB setup instead of a FAST. I'll keep looking for a used/cheap FAST setup, as that's the only way buy a FAST setup.
I think come spring, I'm going to take the car to get dyno tuned by one of the premiere LSx shops. I just wish I didn't live so damn far away from Tick, or I'd have them do the tuning.
11-11-2013, 10:12 PM
#210
12 Second Club
iTrader: (31)
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Kansas City, MO
Posts: 587
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
You should've brought the car to the mustang/fbody meet in kc, let Ryan Mitchell or Justune put their touch on it. Have you ran or know anyone you can race that you can compare power to?
11-11-2013, 10:16 PM
#211
Well, I'll get the dyno graphs up tomorrow. I'll put them in this thread and make another one in they Dyno section. Jake, since the car was running so rich, obviously the tune is off and there is more to be had with a better tune. I just wonder if the missing 15 to 20 hp could be found with a better tune? Also, the torque number is what is really bothering me. This cam is supposed to be a torque monster and every single dyno graph I've seen with this cam is right at 400 rwtq.
11-11-2013, 10:17 PM
#212
Livernois in Chicago can tune your car. Or get down to Texas where a lot of the big boy shops are. And yes, if you're off 20rwhp, you might be off 15-20 on the torque too, especially in the midrange.
What was your torque number at 3000? You want that as close to 350 as you can get.
Optimally (or really, the "limit" of a combo) is based on CID since it's still just an airpump. The general numbers are you want your CID @ 3000 in torque, and 1.25x CID @ 4800 for peak torque and 1.4x CID @ 6300 for peak HP. That's the general rule of thumb for the optimal numbers for a very high performing combination. If you apply to a 408, 416, 427, etc, you see that most dynos will agree with this on really well sorted combos. That's why 500rwhp is so hard in a 346. But really a 470-480rwhp combo is excellent.
So in a 346, it's ~350rwtq @ 3000, and peak numbers of ~430rwtq, ~480rwhp. Anything higher than that and you've got a monster.
What was your torque number at 3000? You want that as close to 350 as you can get.
Optimally (or really, the "limit" of a combo) is based on CID since it's still just an airpump. The general numbers are you want your CID @ 3000 in torque, and 1.25x CID @ 4800 for peak torque and 1.4x CID @ 6300 for peak HP. That's the general rule of thumb for the optimal numbers for a very high performing combination. If you apply to a 408, 416, 427, etc, you see that most dynos will agree with this on really well sorted combos. That's why 500rwhp is so hard in a 346. But really a 470-480rwhp combo is excellent.
So in a 346, it's ~350rwtq @ 3000, and peak numbers of ~430rwtq, ~480rwhp. Anything higher than that and you've got a monster.
11-11-2013, 10:20 PM
#213
I had planned on taking it to Justune's dyno and doing the 3 pulls, but that is about 2 and a half hours from me. I've heard he's one of the best tuners in Missouri, so looks like I may end up giving him the keys and let him tune it for me.
11-11-2013, 10:29 PM
#216
12 Second Club
iTrader: (31)
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Kansas City, MO
Posts: 587
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Livernois in Chicago can tune your car. Or get down to Texas where a lot of the big boy shops are. And yes, if you're off 20rwhp, you might be off 15-20 on the torque too, especially in the midrange.
What was your torque number at 3000? You want that as close to 350 as you can get.
Optimally (or really, the "limit" of a combo) is based on CID since it's still just an airpump. The general numbers are you want your CID @ 3000 in torque, and 1.25x CID @ 4800 for peak torque and 1.4x CID @ 6300 for peak HP. That's the general rule of thumb for the optimal numbers for a very high performing combination. If you apply to a 408, 416, 427, etc, you see that most dynos will agree with this on really well sorted combos. That's why 500rwhp is so hard in a 346. But really a 470-480rwhp combo is excellent.
So in a 346, it's ~350rwtq @ 3000, and peak numbers of ~430rwtq, ~480rwhp. Anything higher than that and you've got a monster.
What was your torque number at 3000? You want that as close to 350 as you can get.
Optimally (or really, the "limit" of a combo) is based on CID since it's still just an airpump. The general numbers are you want your CID @ 3000 in torque, and 1.25x CID @ 4800 for peak torque and 1.4x CID @ 6300 for peak HP. That's the general rule of thumb for the optimal numbers for a very high performing combination. If you apply to a 408, 416, 427, etc, you see that most dynos will agree with this on really well sorted combos. That's why 500rwhp is so hard in a 346. But really a 470-480rwhp combo is excellent.
So in a 346, it's ~350rwtq @ 3000, and peak numbers of ~430rwtq, ~480rwhp. Anything higher than that and you've got a monster.
Yeah, there is a guy pretty local to me that has TFS 220 as cast heads and a little bit bigger Vengeance Racing cam. He put down 440 rwhp on the dyno at Redline Performance in St. Louis. Need to give him a cal and line em up.
I had planned on taking it to Justune's dyno and doing the 3 pulls, but that is about 2 and a half hours from me. I've heard he's one of the best tuners in Missouri, so looks like I may end up giving him the keys and let him tune it for me.
I had planned on taking it to Justune's dyno and doing the 3 pulls, but that is about 2 and a half hours from me. I've heard he's one of the best tuners in Missouri, so looks like I may end up giving him the keys and let him tune it for me.
11-11-2013, 10:31 PM
#217
Livernois in Chicago can tune your car. Or get down to Texas where a lot of the big boy shops are. And yes, if you're off 20rwhp, you might be off 15-20 on the torque too, especially in the midrange.
What was your torque number at 3000? You want that as close to 350 as you can get.
Optimally (or really, the "limit" of a combo) is based on CID since it's still just an airpump. The general numbers are you want your CID @ 3000 in torque, and 1.25x CID @ 4800 for peak torque and 1.4x CID @ 6300 for peak HP. That's the general rule of thumb for the optimal numbers for a very high performing combination. If you apply to a 408, 416, 427, etc, you see that most dynos will agree with this on really well sorted combos. That's why 500rwhp is so hard in a 346. But really a 470-480rwhp combo is excellent.
So in a 346, it's ~350rwtq @ 3000, and peak numbers of ~430rwtq, ~480rwhp. Anything higher than that and you've got a monster.
What was your torque number at 3000? You want that as close to 350 as you can get.
Optimally (or really, the "limit" of a combo) is based on CID since it's still just an airpump. The general numbers are you want your CID @ 3000 in torque, and 1.25x CID @ 4800 for peak torque and 1.4x CID @ 6300 for peak HP. That's the general rule of thumb for the optimal numbers for a very high performing combination. If you apply to a 408, 416, 427, etc, you see that most dynos will agree with this on really well sorted combos. That's why 500rwhp is so hard in a 346. But really a 470-480rwhp combo is excellent.
So in a 346, it's ~350rwtq @ 3000, and peak numbers of ~430rwtq, ~480rwhp. Anything higher than that and you've got a monster.
11-11-2013, 10:34 PM
#218
Then yes, something is up. Even if you don't hit 350, you ought to be in the 330 range. You might need more fuel there and more timing and then lean it out and either advance or retard the timing as your RPMs go up. I don't know what those heads like, but that's what needs to be tinkered with on the dyno.
11-11-2013, 10:38 PM
#219
Then yes, something is up. Even if you don't hit 350, you ought to be in the 330 range. You might need more fuel there and more timing and then lean it out and either advance or retard the timing as your RPMs go up. I don't know what those heads like, but that's what needs to be tinkered with on the dyno.
The torque curve is at 300 rwtq at 3000 rpms, at 3500 rpms it's still below 350 rwtq and then at 4000 rpms, it hits a hair above 350 rwtq where it slowly rises and then peaks at 5000 rpms and slowly goes down from there.
