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Old 06-04-2013, 03:34 PM   #81
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Glad to hear your back with the car. I can't wait to see some numbers posted. We all know that cam is sick! Those heads looked great and spec'd out nice.

I'm in the process of installing my Monster Stage 3 and MWC DS Loop. Break in=500 miles, stop-n-go! Sounds like it will never end!

Rise: Do you have any rear suspension mods? Do you have any issues with wheel hop? I did pretty bad. The car did not want to lay the 315's down at all. LOL I ordered a set of LCA's, LCA relocation brackets, Panhard bar, and a Energy Suspension Torque arm bushing for now. Hopefully that will eliminate the wheel hop for me.
I think you're going to like the Monster Stage 3. From what I've read and heard from others, it will hold power well. I opted for the Stage 3 because I'll eventually add nitrous to the mix, which will put me right at what the clutch is rated at.

I do not have any rear suspension mods. I'm on a completely stock suspension for now. I do, however, have 325's out the back, but they are on a 20 inch wheel, so traction is limited. I did get on it once getting onto the highway and my tires were spinning all the way through 3rd gear. I know I'm supposed to wait and break this son of a bitch in, but once isn't going to hurt it.
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Old 06-04-2013, 03:37 PM   #82
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I broke my clutch in like I am going to use it. Like a man haha. Got a 100 miles of stop and go. And off to the track it went. Never had any issues

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Old 06-04-2013, 03:42 PM   #83
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I broke my clutch in like I am going to use it. Like a man haha. Got a 100 miles of stop and go. And off to the track it went. Need had any issues
Yeah, I've read of people who break them in like Monster says to, and then others who just drive the car the way they are going to from day one. I probably won't do the full 500 mile break in. I'll give it a good 300 miles and then off to be re-tuned.
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Old 06-04-2013, 03:52 PM   #84
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One thing that I forgot to add that has me a little confused is this. With this same cam, with my stock 241's, I had .69 intake clearance and .101 exhaust clearance. My builder said with the new AI Dart/RHS heads, the intake and exhaust clearance are basically exactly the same. The AI Dart/RHS heads were supposed to be milled to 60.5-61cc. Does this sound right? I figured the clearance would have been less than what it was with the stock 241's. Both setups were with OE GM head gaskets too.
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Old 06-04-2013, 03:52 PM   #85
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Yea 500 miles is asking a lot from me lol, but I don't have a reason not to shoot for the 500 mile threshold.

Damn 325's?! I have 17" wheels wrapped in the 315 NT555R's out back. Great tire IMO, just have to eliminate that wheel hop.

I opted for the Stage 3 for the exact same reasons!
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Old 06-04-2013, 03:56 PM   #86
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I was looking at these heads and they certainly have sparked my interest. Could someone explain the the angle of the valves geometry? I already have a cam kit with 7.425" pushrods (was planning a build with unmilled 243's). Would the decreased angle of the valves call for a different pushrod length?

Sorry to hijack your thread but I felt my question was pertinent to the AI RHS heads, of which there isn't much info on.
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Old 06-04-2013, 04:02 PM   #87
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One thing that I forgot to add that has me a little confused is this. With this same cam, with my stock 241's, I had .69 intake clearance and .101 exhaust clearance. My builder said with the new AI Dart/RHS heads, the intake and exhaust clearance are basically exactly the same. The AI Dart/RHS heads were supposed to be milled to 60.5-61cc. Does this sound right? I figured the clearance would have been less than what it was with the stock 241's. Both setups were with OE GM head gaskets too.
The cylinder head deck height is probably larger than the 241's. Allowing you to mill the head down to that CC without running into PTV issues, thus making the clearances roughly the same.

"Basically the same" is not an exact measurement though lol He did measure the new clearances right? Not trying to talk ****, but that sounds like something I'd tell my wife to get her off my ***..lol
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Old 06-04-2013, 04:28 PM   #88
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The cylinder head deck height is probably larger than the 241's. Allowing you to mill the head down to that CC without running into PTV issues, thus making the clearances roughly the same.

"Basically the same" is not an exact measurement though lol He did measure the new clearances right? Not trying to talk ****, but that sounds like something I'd tell my wife to get her off my ***..lol
Yeah, I understand what you're saying. Here is what is says on AI's website about these heads:

They feature lightweight stainless steel valves with 2.00/1.575" head diameters to maximize available piston to valve clearance (Approximately stock GM 243 P2V at 63cc).

He didn't give me the exact numbers, but he said when he measured PTV clearance, the numbers were pretty much identical. I would have thought that with the heads being at 60.5-61cc, I would have had right around .60 intake clearance. Originally, Phil at AI said if I went with the heads milled down to 59cc, I'd have around .50 intake clearance. With that said, does a 60.5-61cc chamber volume roughly equate to how much clearance I have, which is .69? I'm just **** and want to be running right at 11.5:1 compression, which is where Phil said I'd be at with the 60.5-61cc heads.
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Old 06-04-2013, 05:09 PM   #89
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Yeah, I understand what you're saying. Here is what is says on AI's website about these heads:

They feature lightweight stainless steel valves with 2.00/1.575" head diameters to maximize available piston to valve clearance (Approximately stock GM 243 P2V at 63cc).

He didn't give me the exact numbers, but he said when he measured PTV clearance, the numbers were pretty much identical. I would have thought that with the heads being at 60.5-61cc, I would have had right around .60 intake clearance. Originally, Phil at AI said if I went with the heads milled down to 59cc, I'd have around .50 intake clearance. With that said, does a 60.5-61cc chamber volume roughly equate to how much clearance I have, which is .69? I'm just **** and want to be running right at 11.5:1 compression, which is where Phil said I'd be at with the 60.5-61cc heads.
Well if Phil said you'd be running that compression ratio, you're more than likely at that compression ratio.

My LS6 heads are at 63cc and I had around .066"I PTV if I recall correctly. (LS1/6 Heads are 64.5cc in stock form)
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Old 06-05-2013, 10:02 AM   #90
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One thing that I forgot to add that has me a little confused is this. With this same cam, with my stock 241's, I had .69 intake clearance and .101 exhaust clearance. My builder said with the new AI Dart/RHS heads, the intake and exhaust clearance are basically exactly the same. The AI Dart/RHS heads were supposed to be milled to 60.5-61cc. Does this sound right? I figured the clearance would have been less than what it was with the stock 241's. Both setups were with OE GM head gaskets too.
The Dart/AI heads have more valve drop than the 241's. Thus coming close to the same P to V even milled.

Also remember I felt he was still hanging the valve open with the push rod checker being too long while he was checking P to V the last time. That cam normally has well over .080" on the intake and well over .110" on the exhaust with stock chamber volumes and gasket thickness. Your cam was also on a 105ICL as well which will decrease available P to V around .006-.008".
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Old 06-05-2013, 12:29 PM   #91
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The Dart/AI heads have more valve drop than the 241's. Thus coming close to the same P to V even milled.

Also remember I felt he was still hanging the valve open with the push rod checker being too long while he was checking P to V the last time. That cam normally has well over .080" on the intake and well over .110" on the exhaust with stock chamber volumes and gasket thickness. Your cam was also on a 105ICL as well which will decrease available P to V around .006-.008".
So in your opinion, you do think my heads were milled down to where I wanted them to from AI (60.5-61cc)? Now I wish I would have had Kent cc them before he put them on because I'm no doubting that AI did indeed mill them. Like I stated before, there was nothing marked on the heads or any of the paperwork from AI indicating the chamber volume. All I have are the e-mails I sent Phil and his responses back. It would be nice if they at least marked this on the invoice.
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Old 06-05-2013, 04:38 PM   #92
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The Dart/AI heads have more valve drop than the 241's. Thus coming close to the same P to V even milled.

Also remember I felt he was still hanging the valve open with the push rod checker being too long while he was checking P to V the last time. That cam normally has well over .080" on the intake and well over .110" on the exhaust with stock chamber volumes and gasket thickness. Your cam was also on a 105ICL as well which will decrease available P to V around .006-.008".
Valve Drop- Thats the term I was looking for..lol

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So in your opinion, you do think my heads were milled down to where I wanted them to from AI (60.5-61cc)? Now I wish I would have had Kent cc them before he put them on because I'm no doubting that AI did indeed mill them. Like I stated before, there was nothing marked on the heads or any of the paperwork from AI indicating the chamber volume. All I have are the e-mails I sent Phil and his responses back. It would be nice if they at least marked this on the invoice.
I would ask Phil again just for confirmation. With his track record on here alone, I don't think he's going to tell you one thing and do another. Mistakes happen, but I'm sure he would let you know if you asked.

I think what Martin was getting at is your installer is possibly measuring incorrectly. (i.e "Hanging the valve open") The measurements Martin provided are for unmilled heads. Your's being milled down as much as they are, I wouldn't be suprised if you were around where you are.
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Old 06-05-2013, 04:43 PM   #93
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Valve Drop- Thats the term I was looking for..lol



I would ask Phil again just for confirmation. With his track record on here alone, I don't think he's going to tell you one thing and do another. Mistakes happen, but I'm sure he would let you know if you asked.

I think what Martin was getting at is your installer is possibly measuring incorrectly. (i.e "Hanging the valve open") The measurements Martin provided are for unmilled heads. Your's being milled down as much as they are, I wouldn't be suprised if you were around where you are.
I've been e-mailing back and forth with Phil and he's basically giving me the runaround and not answering my main question, which is, what were my heads milled down to? I was very clear with him that my heads were to be milled to 60.5cc, as we had discussed this in previous e-mails. Right before I made payment and right after I made payment, my e-mails clearly stated that I wanted the AI Dart/RHS heads milled to 60.5cc. I've responded back to another one of his e-mails, which did not answer the two questions I had:

1) Does AI mark the heads or indicate on the invoice the chamber volume?
2) What is the chamber volume of the heads I purchased?

You would think any reputable company would keep that information.
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Old 06-05-2013, 07:37 PM   #94
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I've been e-mailing back and forth with Phil and he's basically giving me the runaround and not answering my main question, which is, what were my heads milled down to? I was very clear with him that my heads were to be milled to 60.5cc, as we had discussed this in previous e-mails. Right before I made payment and right after I made payment, my e-mails clearly stated that I wanted the AI Dart/RHS heads milled to 60.5cc. I've responded back to another one of his e-mails, which did not answer the two questions I had:

1) Does AI mark the heads or indicate on the invoice the chamber volume?
2) What is the chamber volume of the heads I purchased?

You would think any reputable company would keep that information.
Man, you need to step back a little. This is your car, you do not even take the time to double check your parts and you try to blame people that do dozens of heads / week to keep a record. If you are that bothered, remove and measure/
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Old 06-05-2013, 07:58 PM   #95
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100 % correct ^^^.
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Old 06-05-2013, 08:33 PM   #96
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If the car pulls hard and makes good power theres no need to get butt hurt if your not making a particular CR. You should be able to get what you want for the money you paid but no need to bash the company. Like PredZ said they do a ton of heads everyday so if they didnt document it on your invoice they might not have at all but Im sure they accommodated your original request.
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Old 06-05-2013, 08:43 PM   #97
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I've been e-mailing back and forth with Phil and he's basically giving me the runaround and not answering my main question, which is, what were my heads milled down to? I was very clear with him that my heads were to be milled to 60.5cc, as we had discussed this in previous e-mails. Right before I made payment and right after I made payment, my e-mails clearly stated that I wanted the AI Dart/RHS heads milled to 60.5cc. I've responded back to another one of his e-mails, which did not answer the two questions I had:

1) Does AI mark the heads or indicate on the invoice the chamber volume?
2) What is the chamber volume of the heads I purchased?

You would think any reputable company would keep that information.
I completely agree. I ran into this same scenario with Phil. I'm not sure why but most of the time you just cannot get a direct answer out of him. Combine that with email only conversation and you get a VERY frustrating experience.


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Man, you need to step back a little. This is your car, you do not even take the time to double check your parts and you try to blame people that do dozens of heads / week to keep a record. If you are that bothered, remove and measure/

Sorry but I disagree. He paid good money for a professional shop to do work to his heads. He should not have to measure.
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Old 06-05-2013, 11:31 PM   #98
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Man, you need to step back a little. This is your car, you do not even take the time to double check your parts and you try to blame people that do dozens of heads / week to keep a record. If you are that bothered, remove and measure/
When your paying someone basically like an advisor or a consultant and they are deemed a professional yes they should know and yes they should have a record of it and yes the work should have been performed. What is everyone paying these shops 1000s of dollars for if they can't even do this?
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Old 06-06-2013, 01:34 AM   #99
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I agree, it should have been stamped or written with marker on the heads, and written/typed on the invoice.. buddy of mine got the 226cc package for his 243s from AI and they wrote with marker on the heads. I would be a little iffy about it if they sent my heads back to me and it was not written anywhere to indicate that it had in fact been done.

With that said, I have heard nothing but good things about AI and Im sure Phil will help out the OP and clear everything up. Definately want to know the outcome though..
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Old 06-06-2013, 02:28 AM   #100
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Bunch of cry babies, always waiting to be spoon fed. Blame someone else for your deficiencies. When I get heads from a shop I'm more worried that valve job and bowl work is spot on. And regardless whether you pay or not, you should ALWAYS double check any product you consume.
Work for your success!
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