Rocker needle bearings MIA – more tear-down or run it?
07-05-2014, 09:46 PM
#1
Rocker needle bearings MIA – more tear-down or run it? Changed the oil while continuing to wait patiently for my Monster clutch. Found one rocker bearing on the drain plug. Only pulled the valve covers; did not pull/drop either head, valley cover, or the oil pan. Found one stock, trunion bearing cap (retainer) had broke. Between what was sitting amid the springs and rockers and those I fished out of the oil pan with magnets I found 25 of 33 bearings and what appear to be all the pieces of the broken retainer. IIRC, everything I found in the head was up top; I dragged nothing up from the lifter trays or from deep down the ports around the head bolts during extensive fishing with a pen magnet.
Read tons of threads. There does not seem to be much consensus on this. Many forgo extensive tear down to get all the bearings, hoping to catch those MIA during future oil changes. Others tear it apart till they find them all. What do you think?
BTW, I intend to install the Harland Sharp trunion upgrade kit, or just send mine in for the same.
Read tons of threads. There does not seem to be much consensus on this. Many forgo extensive tear down to get all the bearings, hoping to catch those MIA during future oil changes. Others tear it apart till they find them all. What do you think?
BTW, I intend to install the Harland Sharp trunion upgrade kit, or just send mine in for the same.
07-06-2014, 08:12 AM
#2
Can you post some photos of what you pulled out?
I would suggest dropping the pan for a good cleaning. If you suspect any bits got into the pump, the drive gear is probably beat up a bit. If this is so, replace the pump.
It's extra work but you'll sleep better.
I would suggest dropping the pan for a good cleaning. If you suspect any bits got into the pump, the drive gear is probably beat up a bit. If this is so, replace the pump.
It's extra work but you'll sleep better.
07-06-2014, 01:15 PM
#3
Rockers appeared fine when I swapped in 243 heads 5k miles (6 years) ago. I do not drive it much obviously, but had not noticed any change in valve train noise or any symptoms. I never saw any needle bearings on my drain plug over that period up till this last oil change.
The offending rocker, trunion bearing cap chunk, trunion inner race chunk, and recovered needle bearings (25).
Close up of the destroyed bearing cap and inner race.
When placing the loose, inner race chunk back in place for the above photo, I realized there is another tiny chunk I did not recover, indicated by the red arrow.
Bearing cap chunk set back in place. No visible, missing chunks.
The offending rocker, trunion bearing cap chunk, trunion inner race chunk, and recovered needle bearings (25).
Close up of the destroyed bearing cap and inner race.
When placing the loose, inner race chunk back in place for the above photo, I realized there is another tiny chunk I did not recover, indicated by the red arrow.
Bearing cap chunk set back in place. No visible, missing chunks.
07-06-2014, 11:24 PM
#5
Sigh. I have been researching dropping the oil pan using an engine support bar and dropping the k-member.
98 TA with stock bottom end. My rev limiter, IIRC, is set at 6500. No track or strip. Conservative driver. Probably pushing 380-420 rwhp. Should I even consider changing the rod bolts after the pan is dropped?
98 TA with stock bottom end. My rev limiter, IIRC, is set at 6500. No track or strip. Conservative driver. Probably pushing 380-420 rwhp. Should I even consider changing the rod bolts after the pan is dropped?
07-07-2014, 07:55 AM
#6
Sigh. I have been researching dropping the oil pan using an engine support bar and dropping the k-member.
98 TA with stock bottom end. My rev limiter, IIRC, is set at 6500. No track or strip. Conservative driver. Probably pushing 380-420 rwhp. Should I even consider changing the rod bolts after the pan is dropped?
98 TA with stock bottom end. My rev limiter, IIRC, is set at 6500. No track or strip. Conservative driver. Probably pushing 380-420 rwhp. Should I even consider changing the rod bolts after the pan is dropped?
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07-07-2014, 08:23 AM
#8
They still offer them but they're a bit expensive. For not much more you can get an entire set of rods.
http://store.katechengines.com/conne...bolts-p25.aspx
http://store.katechengines.com/conne...bolts-p25.aspx
07-07-2014, 10:18 AM
#9
Thanks for the help everyone. After reading many threads here, I have decided not to touch the rod bolts. I am not confident resizing is not necessary even with the Katech bolts.
I need to get this car back on the road or sell it. It just sits in my garage taking up space.
I am going to push hard to either pick up or order today the trunion upgrade (Harland); oil pan gasket; an engine support bar (Harbor Freight Item# 96524); maybe a couple thrust bearings for the cheap support bar; and probably some appropriate bolts to throw in the heads or block for lifting points.
Am I missing anything? Should I go with an OEM oil pan gasket or Fel-pro?
Since nothing is hanging off the back of the engine, do you have any suggestions for keeping it from swinging around when I unbolt the motor mounts?
I need to get this car back on the road or sell it. It just sits in my garage taking up space.
I am going to push hard to either pick up or order today the trunion upgrade (Harland); oil pan gasket; an engine support bar (Harbor Freight Item# 96524); maybe a couple thrust bearings for the cheap support bar; and probably some appropriate bolts to throw in the heads or block for lifting points.
Am I missing anything? Should I go with an OEM oil pan gasket or Fel-pro?
Since nothing is hanging off the back of the engine, do you have any suggestions for keeping it from swinging around when I unbolt the motor mounts?
07-07-2014, 11:22 PM
#13
Very tough for me to evaluate the situation. I am trying to make good decisions after hours and hours and hours of reading through internet threads, mostly on this site. I do not know any of the posters. I think I am going to call the owner of SNL tomorrow morning and go over the situation with him. He has been extremely helpful answering questions I have had since the beginning of research into my clutch problem. This car is a real distraction from what is important in this life. Probably need to make some serious changes regarding this car. Would probably be good to just get rid of it.
08-26-2016, 10:14 PM
#15
Update
Found the last 8 - needle bearings without pulling the pan.
Car sat in storage till July of this year when I pulled the driver head and valley cover. Found 6 – additional needle bearings in the head once I removed it. All six were in the back where it was hard to see them while the head was in the vehicle. One of those six was between one of the dual springs. Magnets do not pick up these bearings well when they are in contact with ferrous metal like head bolts and springs. I did not find a single bearing in the lifter buckets or the block recesses for the buckets. None got thrown up under the valley cover, but I did notice my knock sensor oil seals were failing, so replaced them.
Dumped about 3 quarts of mineral spirits into the block after head reinstallation hoping to flush the remaining bearings to the drain hole. No luck. Flushed residual mineral spirits out with cheap oil and refilled.
Drove it ~225 miles and changed the oil tonight using a strong neodymium magnet to “sweep” the pan from the outside. Found the last 2 – needle bearings.
Found the last 8 - needle bearings without pulling the pan.
Car sat in storage till July of this year when I pulled the driver head and valley cover. Found 6 – additional needle bearings in the head once I removed it. All six were in the back where it was hard to see them while the head was in the vehicle. One of those six was between one of the dual springs. Magnets do not pick up these bearings well when they are in contact with ferrous metal like head bolts and springs. I did not find a single bearing in the lifter buckets or the block recesses for the buckets. None got thrown up under the valley cover, but I did notice my knock sensor oil seals were failing, so replaced them.
Dumped about 3 quarts of mineral spirits into the block after head reinstallation hoping to flush the remaining bearings to the drain hole. No luck. Flushed residual mineral spirits out with cheap oil and refilled.Drove it ~225 miles and changed the oil tonight using a strong neodymium magnet to “sweep” the pan from the outside. Found the last 2 – needle bearings.
