25thhawk

iTrader: (3)

I was changing valve springs yesterday and have a couple of valves that have worn out stems and I'm contemplating replacing the valves or getting new heads.

My setup is a 98 camaro, m6, kooks 1 3/4, custom true duals, fast 90/nw 90. Cam is a futral f-10, 228/228 .576/.576 and the heads are patriot performance stage 2 race style perimeter bolt heads, dyno #'s are from when it was 3.73 10bolt.

Car made 431/410 on a dynojet, but that was STD not Sae, so it is tough to compare the numbers to other dyno sheets I have seen. Car makes peak power from 5800-6400. Its almost dead flat there and I shift at 6500, so not really looking to change the cam.

So the debate is how much I would pick up swithing to a prc225 as cast head. or should I just revalve the heads and call it a day. Dont really need more power, but depending on how much it would pick up, it might be worth it. Thanks

Rise of the Phoenix

iTrader: (27)

There would be power to pick up if you swapped to those heads. How much, I'm not sure, but probably 15 or more.

TXZ28LS1

iTrader: (5)

228 is a good all around size. You can swap out to a larger cam or swap out the heads. You will make power either way. I would get new heads and bigger cam.

Rise of the Phoenix

iTrader: (27)

How many miles are on the heads? Did you buy them used?

25thhawk

iTrader: (3)

Bought them new. approx 10k on the heads. The tops of the valve stems are just wearing out. Prolly lucky I was changing the valve springs or it might have dropped a valve soon. Nothing really wrong with them, just wondering how much power I'm leaving on the table if I keep them.

25thhawk

iTrader: (3)

I realize going with a bigger cam would make more power, but since I'm not spinning it over 6500 anyway, i don't think it will be usable power anyway. Car is street driven and drag raced, but mainly street.

Rise of the Phoenix

iTrader: (27)

Kind of depends on your budget. You could sell the current heads and use that to help fund the new heads, but you'll still be out money for the heads, and you'll need a re-tune, so more money there. All in all, that might be worth 20 to 30 hp tops. In my opinion, the cost doesn't justify tbe gain.

Always2Slow

iTrader: (8)

Nothing wrong with putting a good set of heads on the car. You can pick up power with compression and better airflow. Usually you will pick up across the board so the gain is much larger than what it seems. I agree you should keep your current cam if you like how it drives. It's hard to say what your current heads need in the form of work, but I would be willing to bet a valve job, springs, and maybe even replacing the guides with what you have mentioned and the fact they are patriots. I have a set of PRC as cast heads right now that I will be flow testing and doing some touch up work to. After working with various aftermarket heads and many stock heads I must say I am impressed with the as cast heads. They have a great transition from the valve job into the combustion chamber. There are no ridges from the seat to the bowl. The quality of the head is great, but I can't tell you how hard the aluminum is yet because I have yet to grind on it yet. They are definitely nicer than the dart heads out of the box.

25thhawk

iTrader: (3)

Money isn't really a big concern for this. The was I'm looking at it is about $300 for valves, $300 for the spring kit, prolly $2-300 for a valve job and setup. And they are still the worst casting ported 10 years ago by probably one of the lowest performing head companies. So I'm already halfway to the cost of the prc's. The only other thing I would need is centerbolt covers and coils, but I can rob them from another one of my cars, so no big deal there either. If there is 20hp to gain, it would be well worth it.

25thhawk

iTrader: (3)

Forgot to mention that the patriots were stock size chambers, so I will pick up some compression also. The dyno tune needs to be redone anyway since I changed rear gears, so no real cost there either.

Randy WS6

iTrader: (69)

How old are the heads ? There's been a lot of updates over the years on the CNC work on the flow characteristics of the chamber & runners .It might be worth a upgrade

25thhawk

iTrader: (3)

I bought the heads new in 2004

Rise of the Phoenix

iTrader: (27)

Yeah, now that I think of it, if you do pull the trigger on those heads, have them milled and use thin gaskets so you can have an optimized compression ratio between 11:1 to 12:1. That alone, with better flowing heads, will help out a lot. I wouldn't stick any more money into those heads you have now. After adding up what all you'd have to get for them, you might as well upgrade.

WS6ICK2k

I would change those heads out as Phoenix mentioned they have came a long way since then, unless you had a large bore stroker planned in the future then I would wait. Sell them to offset the cost someone would jump on them trying to get into the game and fix them.

Those are still very respectable numbers though.

Randy WS6

iTrader: (69)

Sounds like your having valve float if the tips for the valve stems are worn out . Need a new set of spring for the right cam lift .

Rise of the Phoenix

iTrader: (27)

Brain Tooley Racing for the spring kit would be a good way to go. Not sure if that's an option if you order them from Texas Speed.

25thhawk

iTrader: (3)

Doesn't appear to be float, just the #1 and #8 exhaust valves. I think they are just cheap valves. The wore out in the center and there is a divot in them. Not sure how to describe it, but it is only those 2. No real wear on the others. They were the patriot gold dual springs for .650 lift and I only had .576, so shouldn't have been an issue.

25thhawk

iTrader: (3)

Seems like texas speed has a good spring kit. But I also have 2 of the BTR kits sitting here, so either way I got that part covered