408 cam choices
10-24-2014, 07:43 PM
#21
I ran a speed density tune on my 408 with no bucking and a 255/271 115 lsa cam (but I'm running 12.5:1 scr) even with the huge cam the higher static compression keeps my dynamic compression up at 8.22:1 and made me a very well mannered setup for the street.
10-24-2014, 11:29 PM
#23
I'm looking for a torque cam as peak HP isn't the goal for this build. I'd like to stay away from the cams that surge in the low end as I want a comfortable daily driver setup.
I'd go smaller then most are suggesting, like a Cam Motion 234/238 112lsa+2.
I also came up with about 11.27 SCR with a .008" DH and the other info you provided.
I'd go smaller then most are suggesting, like a Cam Motion 234/238 112lsa+2.
I also came up with about 11.27 SCR with a .008" DH and the other info you provided.
Russ Kemp
10-25-2014, 04:45 PM
#24
Many people run cams with about 12* overlap with a stock 346 engine and don't "buck & surge a lot", maybe have some minor issues. IMO, that cam in a 408 should drive great with a good tune.
Last edited by 99Bluz28; 10-26-2014 at 11:26 PM.
10-25-2014, 10:29 PM
#26
I'm also sure if you put up a poll asking about a cam with specs like I suggested in a 408 with a M6 trans, most would tell you it shouldn't have the issues you're stating with a good tune. I'm not trying to knock your tuning ability but no one knows everything.
10-26-2014, 05:23 PM
#27
I don't have any tuning tips, I take my car to a tuner that has years of tuning experience to do the tuning for me. My tip to you (which I also follow): Don't let your pride get in the way from you seeking the advice of a Pro when you can't solve a problem. There's always someone that knows a little more that can solve it. I
I'm also sure if you put up a poll asking about a cam with specs like I suggested in a 408 with a M6 trans, most would tell you it shouldn't have the issues you're stating with a good tune. I'm not trying to knock your tuning ability but no one knows everything.
I'm also sure if you put up a poll asking about a cam with specs like I suggested in a 408 with a M6 trans, most would tell you it shouldn't have the issues you're stating with a good tune. I'm not trying to knock your tuning ability but no one knows everything.
Then I know of a C5 Corvette owner with a 418, M6 trans & 4.10 gears. Was sold a custom 235/243/114 cam (11* overlap) to replace the 17* overlap cam. Well the 17* overlap cam was undriveable after a famous tuner worked on it. The 11* overlap cam is better, but has a lot of trailer hitching at light throttle/low rpm. Then he was told of another famous tuner that could tame this cam. Well after several emails to this new tuner about the cam & engine specs, and the expectation about the light throttle/low rpm drive-ability, the emails weren't replied to. He then asked me to help, and I told him right away that his cam was a very poor choice if he wanted nice street manners.
Then there was a 2010 Camaro M6 3.45 gears, that I tuned a couple of years ago. Stock heads, Comp LSR 227/243/113+4 cam (9* overlap), 1.75" Kooks header/high flow cats, Fast 102 intake. Now this car has next to no surging/trailer hitching at light throttle/low rpm.
Then there's this 1972 Nova 5 speed manual, 3.73 gears with a 6L LQ9, stock LS3 heads & intake, 10.7 CR, 1.75" headers and the LPE GT1-1 229/242/114 (7.5* overlap). And this cam has the typical light throttle/low rpm surge. Tried retarding the timing as the owner drove at a steady 30 mph in 4th gear. All this did was make the engine labor, and no improvement in the surging. Also put the car in open loop, and used the scanner controls to add, then subtract fuel at steady speed. No improvement. Also delayed the EOIT, in 5* increments till 25*. I mean, the car is not that bad at light throttle/low rpm. But it has the noticeable jerk/surge/fishbite/trailer hitching. His car makes good power, runs 11.7 @118 mph at 2000' altitude.
Anyway, when someone says their big cam drives like stock, that is very debatable. As some guys are happy driving in 3rd gear, 2000 rpm at 30 mph. But that isn't how I or others want to drive. Then if you have an auto trans with a loose convertor, then that can't be compared a manual trans. And there is a reason why there are many cam specs available, if you can tune a big cam to drive like stock, there wouldn't be any smaller cams being sold.
Finally, I keep no tuning secrets. I've helped many people over the years on several forums, and I've shared a lot. And I also do email tuning for people that are thousands of miles away from me.
Russ Kemp
10-26-2014, 11:32 PM
#28
The only reason I replied to your post is because the Bold blanket statement you made. "I can guaranty that cam will buck & surge a lot in the op's car with his M6 trans."
I clearly stated my opinion, only my opinion. I didn't make a point stating anything as fact; like you did. I will agree that opinions on what condones " a lot" can vary from person to person. So what one says is a little might seem like a lot to someone else, or vice versa.
Furthermore you're entitled to your opinion, and I respect that, but so am I and you should respect that to whether you like it or not. All I did is throw out some constructive criticism, not hate or bashing. So, let's move on.
I clearly stated my opinion, only my opinion. I didn't make a point stating anything as fact; like you did. I will agree that opinions on what condones " a lot" can vary from person to person. So what one says is a little might seem like a lot to someone else, or vice versa.
Furthermore you're entitled to your opinion, and I respect that, but so am I and you should respect that to whether you like it or not. All I did is throw out some constructive criticism, not hate or bashing. So, let's move on.
10-27-2014, 05:23 AM
#29
TECH Veteran
I would look at some old threads by the guys running hke 408 motors and see what cams they running (specs). Hke have built some of the baddest 408s on pump gas ever. One hke 408 I've seen made 575 Rwhp threw a M6.
10-30-2014, 02:57 PM
#30
I gave more spark advance at idle and widen the spark retard feature at idle to stop the rpm hunt.
also if your getting back on the bumper you are "probably" running too rich so he can cut down the minimum flow rate (sorry it's been a few years since I opened up a tune) so i can'trr ember the exact heading.
10-31-2014, 12:58 PM
#31
11 Second Club
Ok, what are your cam specs? Auto or manual trans? The "big cam" tuning info that I've gathered over the years from others was to retard spark timing in the areas were the surging/bucking occurs. In my experience, all that does is make the engine labor, and does not improve the surging/bucking at all. The other info about delaying the EOIT with a larger cam, defiantly fixed the black fuel soot on my back bumper. But zero improvement in the drive-ability.
Then I know of a C5 Corvette owner with a 418, M6 trans & 4.10 gears. Was sold a custom 235/243/114 cam (11* overlap) to replace the 17* overlap cam. Well the 17* overlap cam was undriveable after a famous tuner worked on it. The 11* overlap cam is better, but has a lot of trailer hitching at light throttle/low rpm. Then he was told of another famous tuner that could tame this cam. Well after several emails to this new tuner about the cam & engine specs, and the expectation about the light throttle/low rpm drive-ability, the emails weren't replied to. He then asked me to help, and I told him right away that his cam was a very poor choice if he wanted nice street manners.
Then there was a 2010 Camaro M6 3.45 gears, that I tuned a couple of years ago. Stock heads, Comp LSR 227/243/113+4 cam (9* overlap), 1.75" Kooks header/high flow cats, Fast 102 intake. Now this car has next to no surging/trailer hitching at light throttle/low rpm.
Then there's this 1972 Nova 5 speed manual, 3.73 gears with a 6L LQ9, stock LS3 heads & intake, 10.7 CR, 1.75" headers and the LPE GT1-1 229/242/114 (7.5* overlap). And this cam has the typical light throttle/low rpm surge. Tried retarding the timing as the owner drove at a steady 30 mph in 4th gear. All this did was make the engine labor, and no improvement in the surging. Also put the car in open loop, and used the scanner controls to add, then subtract fuel at steady speed. No improvement. Also delayed the EOIT, in 5* increments till 25*. I mean, the car is not that bad at light throttle/low rpm. But it has the noticeable jerk/surge/fishbite/trailer hitching. His car makes good power, runs 11.7 @118 mph at 2000' altitude.
Anyway, when someone says their big cam drives like stock, that is very debatable. As some guys are happy driving in 3rd gear, 2000 rpm at 30 mph. But that isn't how I or others want to drive. Then if you have an auto trans with a loose convertor, then that can't be compared a manual trans. And there is a reason why there are many cam specs available, if you can tune a big cam to drive like stock, there wouldn't be any smaller cams being sold.
Finally, I keep no tuning secrets. I've helped many people over the years on several forums, and I've shared a lot. And I also do email tuning for people that are thousands of miles away from me.
Russ Kemp
Then I know of a C5 Corvette owner with a 418, M6 trans & 4.10 gears. Was sold a custom 235/243/114 cam (11* overlap) to replace the 17* overlap cam. Well the 17* overlap cam was undriveable after a famous tuner worked on it. The 11* overlap cam is better, but has a lot of trailer hitching at light throttle/low rpm. Then he was told of another famous tuner that could tame this cam. Well after several emails to this new tuner about the cam & engine specs, and the expectation about the light throttle/low rpm drive-ability, the emails weren't replied to. He then asked me to help, and I told him right away that his cam was a very poor choice if he wanted nice street manners.
Then there was a 2010 Camaro M6 3.45 gears, that I tuned a couple of years ago. Stock heads, Comp LSR 227/243/113+4 cam (9* overlap), 1.75" Kooks header/high flow cats, Fast 102 intake. Now this car has next to no surging/trailer hitching at light throttle/low rpm.
Then there's this 1972 Nova 5 speed manual, 3.73 gears with a 6L LQ9, stock LS3 heads & intake, 10.7 CR, 1.75" headers and the LPE GT1-1 229/242/114 (7.5* overlap). And this cam has the typical light throttle/low rpm surge. Tried retarding the timing as the owner drove at a steady 30 mph in 4th gear. All this did was make the engine labor, and no improvement in the surging. Also put the car in open loop, and used the scanner controls to add, then subtract fuel at steady speed. No improvement. Also delayed the EOIT, in 5* increments till 25*. I mean, the car is not that bad at light throttle/low rpm. But it has the noticeable jerk/surge/fishbite/trailer hitching. His car makes good power, runs 11.7 @118 mph at 2000' altitude.
Anyway, when someone says their big cam drives like stock, that is very debatable. As some guys are happy driving in 3rd gear, 2000 rpm at 30 mph. But that isn't how I or others want to drive. Then if you have an auto trans with a loose convertor, then that can't be compared a manual trans. And there is a reason why there are many cam specs available, if you can tune a big cam to drive like stock, there wouldn't be any smaller cams being sold.
Finally, I keep no tuning secrets. I've helped many people over the years on several forums, and I've shared a lot. And I also do email tuning for people that are thousands of miles away from me.
Russ Kemp
Last edited by SoFla01SSLookinstok; 10-31-2014 at 05:06 PM.
10-31-2014, 01:47 PM
#32
I've been contemplating one thing in your reply. The 2010 camaro with a cam having 9* overlap that has next to no surging. Next the 72 nova with a cam having less overlap @ 7.5* & has surge. Would this be from the extra ci of the 6.2 in the camaro, over the 6.0 in the nova, maybe a compression difference??
And your GT2-3 cam has -23.5* valve overlap. So even a 0* overlap cam that I recommended for you is a huge step.
Russ Kemp
10-31-2014, 02:25 PM
#33
PSnewbie , I did come across a old Tony Mamo thread you might want to look over. He went with a 232/232 114lsa+1 cam in a 403 cu.in. LS2 build as a milder cam choice that "idles like stock". https://ls1tech.com/forums/generatio...binations.html