Cstraub

iTrader: (1)

Back in the 80's when Buick was in Indy Cars when a roller lifter failed it took out the engine.. I think they were around $250K back then for an engine. They weren't having issues, BUT when 1 did fail nothing was left of the engine.

Morel was contacted to design a lifter that would "warn" the team that a lifter was failing. Joe and Ed Morel came up with the sleeve/bushing assembly. The problem with needle bearings is there is no warning. The needle will wear and when they fail they fall out. This can lock up the lifter and cause massive damage. The idea with the sleeve/bushing lifter will wear but it will wear slowly. As it wears it gains clearance. The clearance will show up in additional lash in the engine making it very noisy. This built in "whistle blower" tells when maintenance is needed.

The lifter is designed for aggressive cam profiles and extreme spring pressures. A bushing lifter can handle 300X the spring pressure a needle bearing lifter can. High end engine builds that don't want to risk a lifter destroying an engine and want to take all the precaution they can to prevent catastrophic failure should run these lifters. Just know up front they are not a "set it and forget it" part. They will require maintenance.

Cons, they are around $250 more a set than a std needle bearing. They do not like contaminated oil. Once oil starts to change color you need to change it. No oil restriction to the main oiling of the engine can be used. Older Morel needle bearing lifters can not be retro fitted.

Pros, they tell you when they need maintenance. There isn't a cam profile that they can't handle along with the spring rate needed. They are available in .842, .903", and .936" diameters. They are fully rebuildable.

Bushings will not be available in hyd rollers. The intent is to have a "whistle blower". If you used in a hyd application the bushing wear would be taken up by the plunger travel and effectively taking away the main reason to use a bushing lifter.

TurboBuick6

iTrader: (2)

Chris, isn't there some major pimping of a bushed hydro lifter? It has to work! Haha.

Cstraub

iTrader: (1)

The problem with a hyd roller is it totally removes the function of the early warning system. If you put a bushing roller on a hyd lifter then you loose the early warning system of the lifter gaining clearance and making noise to warn you that it is failing. A hyd lifter will take up the slack in the valving giving you no warning.

KCS

iTrader: (20)

You mean to tell me the bushing isn't an advantage over the needle bearings for increased load bearing are?

Jontall

Those Morel 6177 bushed solid rollers are sweet. I wish they were available when I did my cam, but if I ever need to do it again, it's going to be a solid roller.

JakeFusion

iTrader: (7)

Hey Chris, I've been looking into a Bushed Lifter for my next build. I was advised to do the 6177s over the 5425s for a Low Lash Solid Roller application... with fairly mild spring pressures via PAC 1208X springs and .010" cold lash and something in the .700" lift range.

For a street engine that does see 7500+ with aftermarket, solid stem LS3 valves (TFS 255s), and 3/8" pushrods, would the 6177s offer anything in terms of longevity? Or would it just be more of a headache part?

JS01

iTrader: (10)

I would not run a bushing roller lifter in a street application, just my opinion. You can do it of course... but I would be worrying about it unless the oil was changed constantly which isnt exactly my idea of a street car. The 5425's would be more suited to what you are wanting IMO and what you described in your post would be a cake walk for them. Even the cheaper 5452's would be fine for something like that. Like I said thats just my 2 cents.

JS01

iTrader: (10)

Just some insight I have run the 5425's in normal solid roller applications, with 750-800 open pressure and .750-.850 lift on 'street' type builds with good success.

JakeFusion

iTrader: (7)

That's what I'm thinking. If I had some crazy spring pressures, the bushed lifter would make more sense. But I saw on the Chevelle site that big blocks have a lot of problems with the needle bearing type lifters because they simply aren't big enough to carry the load. But in an LS configuration with LLSR lobes and basically hydraulic springs, the 5425 might be more than enough.

Cstraub

iTrader: (1)

I would only run the Bushings with VERY aggressive cam profiles. An .842" needle bearing lifter can handle up to 295# of seat pressure. If your cam profile needs more seat then go to a bushing lifter.

JakeFusion

iTrader: (7)

Thanks, Chris. I know I had PM'd you about the drop-ins, but the 5425s have the pressurized oiling, which I think I'd prefer in a street build. I just had been advised against any sort of needle bearing in a solid roller setup and to step up to the bushed lifters. But I saw where they just required a lot more maintenance and really clean oil.