redbird555

iTrader: (14)

I'm making this thread because I have 3 roller rockers in my hands and anyone who has weighed other brands is welcome to post to hopefully creat a goal of what works best where. The yt that was weighed was part of the older generation that had issues that my buddy had laying around. I cant imagine the new ones being any lighter since they had MORE material put into them but I cant confirm.

I weighed the tips on 4 rockers.

1. Stock Gm ls1 rocker 8.7g

2. Yella Terra Ultralite YT6645 (old version) 15.6g

3. Jesel Sportsman (non adjustable) 20.2g

4. Harlan Sharp (non adjustable) 22.9g

The YT is definitely the lightest of the RR but I'm not sure where they got the claim they are 50% lighter than other RR's. Perhaps if someone could measure some other ones we could find out?

This was insightful to me because I currently have the jesels and was speaking with Mamo about going to YT's for my valvetrain overhaul. I respect his opinion very much and I like the direction we're headed in. But I still have a real hard time selling the jesels for the YT's. I also talked to Martin at tick about keeping the jesels and I liked what he suggested as well so it's becoming a. Pain in the *** lol. Especially since the YT in comparison isn't all that much lighter and the jesel is a true full shaft setup. opinions?????

HMMMMM decisions decisions

kinglt-1

iTrader: (26)

I personally do not think the YT can top a Jesel. Sure the Jesel might be a hair heavier but it is a full shaft style rocker. I would think that would negate any weight differences.

redbird555

iTrader: (14)

Ya I think the same thing it's just hard to ignore Mamo but then again martins advice was solid as well.

I mainly made this thread to also share the info with people since weights come up so much if other people have rocker weights hopefully they'll post them

svede1212

iTrader: (3)

Curious how you weighed the tips. Can you describe the setup? Did you mount them and put a scale under the tip?

redbird555

iTrader: (14)

Ya basically I took the stock gm stands and the jesel stands and mounted them to a wood bench and let the rockers rest in their slots and let the rocker tips hang free. Then I took my slim pocket scale and slipped it under the nose of the rocker so that they rested on the scale. After some research I found the yella terra and stock one were pretty much what other people got as well

vettenuts

iTrader: (4)

From what I understand in speaking with Yella Terra before I installed the latest generation, the tip weight may actually be less than what you weighed. The added material was near the bearing and pushrod end of the rocker. I don't know how it affected the mass moment of inertia though, which is the true value needed but difficult to obtain. Although, I know each manufacturer has that information in their pocket. I'm a little surprised at the Jesel number you measured, on a percentage basis that's a big jump. Would also be interesting to get the values from the T&D shaft rockers.

redbird555

iTrader: (14)

Ya as far as I know the YT got material added to the pushrod cup and the fulcrum base. Its hard to tell though how that would effect MOI because because at full lift the added mass on the pushrod end will still transfer "some" of its mass towards the springs end.

The comp and t&d setups look beefier compared to the jesels on the spring end so it would be interesting I must admit. Although the jesels still are much lighter compared to the other brands people use.

vettenuts

iTrader: (4)

I think one advantage of the Jesel over the YT is it is a full shaft rocker and could be a bit more stable. I know Arkay99 really liked them and didn't want to remove them but they wouldn't handle the lift on his cam.

svede1212

iTrader: (3)

Even in space with no weight mass affects inertia. Weight changing direction requires increasing energy regardless of how it's balanced so the tip weight is only one factor. The trade off of reliability, stability, geometry, friction and weight is what most of us make tempered by cost.

redbird555

iTrader: (14)

Exactly although its not nearly as bad as putting the weight over the valve tip. Since the pushrod cup is much closer to the axis of rotation the effect of mass there is less on the moment of inertia. However as svede says thats still mass changing direction. BUt thats actually not a bad thing as long as the pushrod doesnt bend and pole vault due to the weight

The yella terras are nice pieces and with their later revisions I see no problem running them as a good roller rocker option. I just cant bring myself to give up shaft mounted system thats proven by the big race guys to go to a yella terra system.Again not that theres anything wrong with the YT though. If i didnt have the jesels I'd go to them

squalor

iTrader: (3)

I see why people like the stock rockers. I wonder if real world experience is proving this thread wrong ?
https://ls1tech.com/forums/generatio...cker-tech.html

redbird555

iTrader: (14)

There's no doubt for 95% of mild builds stock rockers are fine and will keep the valvetrain stable to over 7k with the right parts...The ls7 proved that a long time ago. But that's not to say you cant make it better. A well setup roller valvetrain will make 3-5 more hp up top than its stock counter part. Just because they're heavier doesnt mean they arent good, it just means you have to be able to control them.

Roller rockers get a bad name because people buy them and think they can leave the rest of the valvetrain as it was with stock rockers.

A.R. Shale Targa

iTrader: (2)

I wonder what purpose this device serves.......

redbird555

iTrader: (14)

Lmao I knew that comment was coming sooner or later! Lol i actually used it in my senior design project for weight tolerances on 3D printed parts.....BUT now that you brought it up I know what you have yours for

A.R. Shale Targa

iTrader: (2)

Sorry man that was tee'd up and I just could NOT let it go.
As far as mine goes, YEP back in the day I was quite the hoodlum but now that it's about to be legal every where, plus being mid forties and all, I pretty much put my extra cash in my car. I'm more about brain cell preservation at this point; seeing as I only have 3 cells left, I try like hell to keep them all on the same page....LOL
Back to your thread, IMO one of the main factors when looking at the valve train as a whole system, the lifter plays such an important role. When a dyno graph looks like Llama ****; we just say hey valve float. But WHY is it happening ?? Back when LS cams went from retro-fitting BBC lobes in the mid fives lift range, a beehive spring was "all the rage". Then as they began to maximize the capability of the LS bearing journal diameter which is what limits the flank speed of the lobe design....we began to need dual springs. Now IMO the hydraulic lifter (any make/model) gets maximized once the valve spring reaches 150 seat and 370-380 open. Regardless of the weight of a drop in, link bar, push rod, or rocker arm set up, once a spring needs to have more pressure than that to keep **** in check, It's time to give Kip a call for an LLR....
In fact I half suspect that some of the crazy beefy pushrods are needed just because the factory style rocker arm reaches it's range of motion at just shy of .600" lift. The cam/lifter are still moving north and the rocker arm is saying WTF man ???? Weak link.....pushrod....
On Gen I stuff the best stud mounted rocker seems to be the Crower piece.
It's stainless and has minimal material on the valve side. Someone needs to make a GEN III that looks like the Crower. Aluminum...just like connecting rods needs SO much material to truly have any strength, I refuse to believe that it's the best for a rocker arm. Hey doesn't Comp make a chromoly roller rocker kit or have those been determined long ago to be weak and/or heavy ??

ctd

iTrader: (1)

I just recently upgraded the valve train in my LS3 stroker with TF 235's, which included replacing the YT 6645, cam, springs & lifters. This was my second set of YT's, the 6645's were purchased to replace the previous version not that there was a problem just trying to be preventative. I choose the non adjustable HS, primarily because TF endorsed this rocker & cylinder head combination. My second reason was the size of the roller wheel, the HS is larger which of course will be heavier. The new version of the YT's should now be endorsed by TF, I was not prepared to purchase 3rd set of YT's. I never asked about the size of nose wheel in the latest version, sometimes being a little heavier for improved reliability & durability is good with me.

Don't know if this a factor or not in this discussion, I thought I would mention it. There is good weight & bad weight in many things.

1 Slow WS6

iTrader: (1)

I'm curious as to what Tony and Martin said about the rockers? If I had jesels I would be hesitant to get rid of them myself

NW-99SS

iTrader: (6)

Subscribed...Jesels on my LS1 as well.

redbird555

iTrader: (14)

Martin said both are good but the jesels are shaft mounted and will ultimatley have better stability when you get in the serious rpm. Both have the same power potential because they are full rollers on shafts.

Tony recommended the yella terras over the jesels. He said the yella terras and jesels would make the same power and curve but the yella terras will need lighter springs than the jesels. In the end either would work fine I believe. He said he sees no power difference between them, the curves always look good and he has had the jesel float more often.

Roller rockers in general get a bad name because people stick them in there with springs made for stock rockers and lifters made for stock setups and then wonder why the curve looks like ****. If you run RR's you need the rest of the valvetrain to be up to the task plain and simple. You will be rewarded by better geometry and slightly smoother and more power

I would take the YT over the other normal RR's though because the HS scorpion etc are heavier over the nose by a good bit and will take quite a bit more spring to control.

I ended up goin with the YT for mine btw. The cost to keep the jesels was just too high my bad lifter already snowballed into way more money than I wanted and the jesels were adding to that. After selling them I was able to buy an almost new set of YT, used arp head studs and head gaskets and still put money back in my pocket lol. With the research I've done for mild build like mine either works just fine and you won't notice a difference. If you were building a hot hot motor then jesel all the way

svede1212

iTrader: (3)

Good rods, hollow valves, stock rockers with trunnion upgrade and Livernois pedestal stands with ARP hardware is a nice solid platform. The stock pedestal is somewhat a weak point in rocker stability.