big hammer

I have a ~20 lb clutch setup.

Last time out I had no problem hitting 1.70 and 1.68 in my bolt on ls1 with old Hoosier DR's and on the 10 bolt. TBH a low 1.6 or a 1.5 would be easily possible if I weren't nursing the 10 bolt

Drive ability for a street\strip car is fine

Darth_V8r

iTrader: (4)

holy crap does that include the flywheel weight?

AINT SKEERED

iTrader: (2)

Lq4 has a dish. 6.7 cc. ,that would give extra ptv clearance. So i should be ok

AINT SKEERED

iTrader: (2)

I use to run an aluminum flywheel with a spec 3+ clutch with 4.10 gears. Other than a little extra surging at idle that can be tuned out, i found it easier to control traction than a heavy combo. Heavy combo hits the tires hard.
Lite combination will slightly bog but then recover faster as it allowed rpms to zing up.
Unless you have a full on drag car and suspension with slicks, i prefer aluminum flywheel

big hammer

Yes sir

5_litre_eater

I've scanned through this thread and can't find what Lid you are running? I Jist bought and installed an SLP lid because my old whisper Lid was cracked. I've decided to go the Mamo route myself, and am worried the 102 throttle body and 100mm maf won't work with the SLP lid. Thoughts?

Darth_V8r

iTrader: (4)

I'll post some pics for you later today. I run the volant air box. I had to get a couple of 4" drain connectors at Home Depot. And some aluminum tape. Works pretty well

5_litre_eater

That would be great, thanks! What did you decide to do with your rear steam ports? Just block them off for now?

Darth_V8r

iTrader: (4)

I got the LS6 kit and blocked them off for now. I'll be taking the manifold back off to do a good crossover kit. I got short on cash and figured the hard part was done, I could go back and do the rest later.

Here is the pic of how I got the intake hooked to the Maf and to the throttle.



The throttle measured 4.125" OD, and the Maf OD measured 4.060", so I used some aluminum tape to build up the Maf port to match.

The ID on the Home Depot 4" drain pipe connectors is 4.25", so it fit right in. There is a nice lip in the connector, which grabs the Maf housing nicely. Then, I just cocked the Maf at an angle to span the throttle to lid.

Darth_V8r

iTrader: (4)

Reading my own post, that is pretty ghetto

Know It All

Soooo....just what is so crucial about this?

5_litre_eater

Thanks for the picture! I'm thinking along the same lines as you; it's going to be an expensive build, so I might cut some corners on things I can easily go back and update later on.

Tony @ Mamo Motorsports

Lets say you installed a 3.930 gasket on your 3.900 ish 346/347 build and installed my MMS 220 heads. While all is fine and dandy on the block side, about .100 of the gasket fire ring would be hanging in the chamber around the entire perimeter (on top of the block), not being clamped down by the cylinder head at all because there isn't any material there (due to the unshrouded larger bore chamber design).

So right off the bat the gaskets ability to hold combustion pressure over the long term is compromised but even worse potentially, is the sharp edges of the MLS style layered gasket might be a source of potential pre-ignition causing detonation if the thin edges of the MLS gasket hanging out in the breeze get hot enough.

If you ran the proper gasket bore in the above scenario (4.160) the gasket would be set back under the chamber and properly clamped down crushing the edge of the gasket completely and in essence making those different layers of steel compress and appear more as one thicker piece of steel further removed from the combustion process fully sandwiched and inboard of the combustion chamber.....now the gasket is being properly supported, clamped and sealed on both sides......not just the block side.

I picture would go a long way here but I hope you guys can visualize what I'm trying to describe.

-Tony

Know It All

Fire Ring? In an MLS gasket? You must be thinking of composite gaskets that have a steel ring around the bore aka a "fire ring". Neither GM nor Cometic gaskets have a fire ring, they're simply layers of steel sheet...

Also, unless your AFR heads are now featuring Hemi chambers, the effect you're describing is not around the entire perimeter. The gasket would only be "hanging out in the breeze" around the valves closest to the bore wall. The rest of the gasket bore would be properly clamped down under the quench pads of the chamber.

I hope you can now visualize what I'm trying to describe.

GARY2004Z06

Looks sweet Tony and I'm sure it will perform as intended.
We run a BC2 with an aluminum FW which is a little lighter. I'm sure Tony's modded RPS would work well also. Here are a few 60's:
1.351
1.364
1.366
1.372
1.382
1.382
1.386
1.389
1.392
1.398
1.402
1.408
1.409
1.409
1.412
1.415
1.416
1.416
1.421
1.427
1.429
1.431
1.432
1.433
1.433
1.436
1.442
1.444
1.445
1.445
1.445
1.446
1.448
1.449
1.450
1.450
1.450
1.451
1.453
1.457
1.458
1.462
1.462
1.464
1.466
1.470
1.471
1.472
1.477
1.477
1.479
1.480
1.480
1.481
1.482
1.485
1.486
1.487
1.488
1.490
1.492
1.494
1.494

NemesisC5

BC2 with Alum FW listed at 26lbs

Tony @ Mamo Motorsports

Some folks (most) on this board spend time here to enjoy the company of other enthusiasts and ask questions to garner information....you seem to have a different agenda in most of the posts I see you make.

MLS Cometic gaskets most certainly have a "fire ring"....the difference is simply that the MLS gasket (Multi Layer Steel) incorporates the design of the fire ring into the "steel sandwich" gasket as a raised embossment around the perimeter of each of the cylinder bores.....this places a higher crush load and extra pressure in that exact location allowing the gasket to be more reliable over the long term and cope with higher combustion pressures before failing.

See the image below which clearly shows the "fire ring" incorporated as a raised bead of steel around each of the cylinder bores perimeter. Its a great addition adding to the strength of an already stout design (hard to push and overwhelm a steel gasket versus a weaker composite material).







And no....you would not want that sealing ring (or any part of the head gasket) inboard of the cylinder heads combustion chamber which follows the shape of the gasket for 60% or so of its perimeter (everywhere except the quench pad area on a larger chamber design that's more unshrouded for the most part). Clearly its ability to properly seal combustion gases would be compromised and not to mention those nice sharp edges you also see in the pic become a concern as they get hot....a potential source of detonation and nothing kills weak OEM cast pistons faster than detonation (forged pistons also but it takes longer).

I took the time to post this to set the record straight, but mainly I post it on behalf of others that might appreciate the information

-Tony

Know It All

LOL, agenda? Me? Its not a good idea to cast stones when you live in a glass house. You don't have to pay and be a site sponsor to simply post information. You're the one with an agenda and its not to be Helpy Helperton. Its to sell cylinder heads. I'm guessing you're not accustomed to members on this site questioning you, but when someone does, it doesn't mean we have an agenda. It simply means someone doesn't agree with you. No need for the tin foil hat.

I hate to get into an argument of semantics, but that embossment is not a fire ring. A fire ring is an actual ring separate or of a different material than the rest of the gasket. That steel ring embedded in a composite gasket...that's a fire ring. The steel ring inserts in diesel applications...that's a fire ring. I do understand what you meant though.

I guess I'm just doubtful as to how crucial this topic really is. My thoughts are:

A larger bore gasket increases the crevice volume between the head and block by about 1cc, which can also be a source of preigniton and/or detonation as well as increasing emissions output and reducing combustion efficiency. Is this edge of the gasket a higher risk than the increased crevice volume?

What applications could this really compromise combustion seal? I don't really think an 11:1 stock bottom end LS1 is really pushing the limits of a Cometic or even GM gasket, so is this really a valid risk?

In applications that really are pushing the limits of a Cometic gasket, is a 4.160" bore really a good idea? I would think a smaller chamber bore would give me more meat between the cylinders and help with sealing more than a large chamber and a "properly" fitted gasket.

svede1212

iTrader: (3)

I know Tony worked for AFR but AFR also recommends a minimum 4.135 gasket as their chamber is the same larger size. So do we take the word of a head manufacturer or the musings of an internet enthusiast that hasn't tested his theory? I can't see how having even a sliver of gasket in the chamber does any good and in fact may cause harm. 4.160" it is for me.

Know It All

Mercedes tested the effects of crevice volume on combustion quality and detonation and wrote an SAE paper on it. Here were the cliff notes:

Crevice volume = bad.