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Old 03-20-2017, 08:47 AM   #601
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If you have basically the same motor as darth then 4.10's and a 25" tire should be pretty good because you should be able to take it out to 7400
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Old 03-20-2017, 09:02 AM   #602
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Nice runs Darth! Car definitely has wicked power trapping that high @ 3600' DA!
Like said, get everything behind the motor sorted out and you should hit 10's
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Old 03-20-2017, 09:54 AM   #603
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If you have basically the same motor as darth then 4.10's and a 25" tire should be pretty good because you should be able to take it out to 7400
The bottom end is all stock. I think he has ARP rod bolts. I do not. I think 7400 would be dangerous. Plus I do not have the duration to carry that high. I have the limit set at 7000 but shift at 6800. Not been on the dyno yet. Hopefully the next couple months.

When I swapped from long tubes to mid lengths (ground clearance) you can actually feel when the mids come into power. The longs were seamless but the mids are almost like the switch from a bigger cam/port. I have plenty of low end so it wasn't a concern.

I have not been on a dyno and do not know where timing should be for peak tq or hp. Compounded by the terrible issue of I have not seen knock all the way up to 33* at peak tq.

Code:
Mamo 220's at 60cc
Hollow intake valves
Johnson SLR non link bar
Yella 1.7 rockers shimmed for proper wipe
Manton Series 4 11/32" custom rods
.040" gasket 
.032" quench verified 11.56SCR 8.95DCR on 93 Oct gas
225/227 cam
Fast 102
Everything mamofied
Holley 90mm TB
ATI balancer
Turn one PS pump
LS3 WP
525cc FIC flow matched (actually 568cc at 3 bar) Yes they are overkill lol
Monster twin plate 45lbs
standard T-56 F-body gearing to a 4.10 rear on 25" tire
1 7/8" mid lengths into dual 3" magnaflow cats. Dual 2.5" after that.


Sorry for the hijack Darth. Just really impressed by your numbers and a little excited about what I could pull off. On a stock LS1 and 225 wide 70$ sumitomos I pulled a 12.2 and a 2.0 60'. Is it 11.5 that you are supposed to have 5pt bar?
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Old 03-20-2017, 11:09 AM   #604
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Damn Darth, now you've got me scurred. We've got almost the same motor minus a couple degrees on the cam and I'm at least 6-800 lbs less. With my gearing I top out at 118 in 4th. Pretty sure my diff would explode with any kind of launch. Plus....no cage.

Okay maybe more on the cam. Forgot you went LLSR and a bigger cam. I'm still on the 225/227+114 with Johnson SLR lifters.
I felt like the hydraulic to solid conversion was worth at least 30, but never got the back to back dyno to prove it. The lack of overlap on your cam will hurt a little up top, but your heads will carry it. That said, I think you'll run out of gear way early, and it'll look like you lifted.

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Sounds like you better get ready to throw 5th gear then.
LOL! And that'll probably kill the back half, but that'd be crazy.

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Aye, my plan when I get back from Korea is to drop in a Ford 8.8 and go to a 3.55 or 3.73. The 4.10 with a 25" tire is just too aggressive. Even with 295 wide 180 tread wear tire.

Sticks like hell in 2nd though even when it's 40*F outside.
Honestly, I would tell you to go S60 or fabbed 9". You can make a fab 9 lighter than your ten bolt. 98_WS6_M6 did. The 8.8's converted for our cars have really thin outer bearings. I seen too many guys put money into the 8.8 and then buy a 9 anyway. The S60 is a tank, but in reality, it's only a few pounds heavier than the 9", and it's a cheaper path to an indestructible rear.

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Nice runs Darth! Car definitely has wicked power trapping that high @ 3600' DA!
Like said, get everything behind the motor sorted out and you should hit 10's
Thanks, Man! You'll laugh, but I didn't realize how crappy I launched on the first run. Got my slip, and was like WTF? Thank God for guys like Hio, hammer, lazer, JHSHNH, Redbird, etc, giving me help with the suspension stuff. Still so much to learn. THe good news is, I got the parts to handle some abuse, so no fear of making it stick. Driver mod sorely needed, LOL

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The bottom end is all stock. I think he has ARP rod bolts. I do not. I think 7400 would be dangerous. Plus I do not have the duration to carry that high. I have the limit set at 7000 but shift at 6800. Not been on the dyno yet. Hopefully the next couple months.
I do, but I was spinning to 7200 on stock bolts. Went to ARP to get to 7500. The ability to stretch your RPM cannot be over-valued in my opinion. If you shift at 7200, you land on the upshift around 4800, right at peak torque. Then you ride that torque curve down and the power band up. Please understand, that's NOT experience talking, just math. Since my peak torque is closer to 5200, I wanted to shift higher. You upshift at 6800, you hit the next gear below peak torque, so you gotta back build your torque. Actually, my ideal shift point would be 8,000, but I don't have the bottom end for that.

If you look at it like a street race (which I CAN talk from experience) you'd be getting gapped on the upshift, catching up when you hit peak power, and falling back again on the upshift.

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When I swapped from long tubes to mid lengths (ground clearance) you can actually feel when the mids come into power. The longs were seamless but the mids are almost like the switch from a bigger cam/port. I have plenty of low end so it wasn't a concern.

I have not been on a dyno and do not know where timing should be for peak tq or hp. Compounded by the terrible issue of I have not seen knock all the way up to 33* at peak tq.
Funny, but after I got my stuff sorted, I didn't get knock even if timing was past peak performance. When I was still on the fast, I could take timing up to 27 at peak power, but 24-25 made more power and carried better. Peak torque, I was only 22. The point is, you don't necessarily make peak numbers JUST prior to knocking. You'll benefit from a dyno tune, if for no other reason than to find those peak performance settings. Curious - you running a wideband? What AFR you seeing? If you can self tune (sounds like it from your posts) I find my PE numbers are best at 1.15, except 1.17 from 4000-5600

Code:
Mamo 220's at 60cc
Hollow intake valves
Johnson SLR non link bar
Yella 1.7 rockers shimmed for proper wipe
Manton Series 4 11/32" custom rods
.040" gasket 
.032" quench verified 11.56SCR 8.95DCR on 93 Oct gas
225/227 cam
Fast 102
Everything mamofied
Holley 90mm TB
ATI balancer
Turn one PS pump
LS3 WP
525cc FIC flow matched (actually 568cc at 3 bar) Yes they are overkill lol
Monster twin plate 45lbs
standard T-56 F-body gearing to a 4.10 rear on 25" tire
1 7/8" mid lengths into dual 3" magnaflow cats. Dual 2.5" after that.


Quote:
Sorry for the hijack Darth. Just really impressed by your numbers and a little excited about what I could pull off. On a stock LS1 and 225 wide 70$ sumitomos I pulled a 12.2 and a 2.0 60'. Is it 11.5 that you are supposed to have 5pt bar?
It's cool man! FirebirdMuscle went into the tens on a Mamo top end also. I'm very curious to see your numbers also! I hate to admit this, I don't know the track rules that well. If that's true, then the track guys were cool, because I didn't get flagged or anything, and I don't have a cage. Just "nice run, man" and handed me the slip. And I don't WANT a cage.
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Old 03-20-2017, 02:43 PM   #605
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I thought something was up with the time slip as well. I've never seen anything like it. When mine was a 402 it ran 7.0's @99. But that was with a 1.56 60ft. I'm thinking something was up with the timing system.
Thanks for at least backing me up a little. Also your example. A 7.0 @99 but it took a 1.5 60' to get it. Not a 2.1-2.2 60'.

Unless I'm mistaken, on the cage thing, at the track, I think it's a 10.49et or 135mph.
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Old 03-20-2017, 03:22 PM   #606
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5-point roll bar is required at 11.49/7.35.

9.99/6.39 requires an 8-point cage.

Last edited by JakeFusion; 03-20-2017 at 08:56 PM.
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Old 03-20-2017, 04:14 PM   #607
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Killer run man. Unfortunately when you make a splash and progress things a big step forward, there will always be a little pushback.

More hp, tire, etc doesnt mean the car will run faster. Proper setup and a good driver will win out. Having more ci's doesnt make a car fast. The right gearing and setup to accelerate does. Having more cubic inches means that the car will make hp, but will be slower to spin up than 'v8ers. That's why a 402 or 416 will be slower given the same hp. 2 cars matched power wise, the one who does more rpm by the end of the run will win. Good hp on a dyno means nothing in a drag race, a lot of area under the curve combined with a high hp number does.

Took a lot of effort to get to this point man, enjoy the hate. You just set a new standard and bar for everyone to achieve...especially for a DD car basically...
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Old 03-20-2017, 10:08 PM   #608
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Originally Posted by nskyline34
Killer run man. Unfortunately when you make a splash and progress things a big step forward, there will always be a little pushback.

More hp, tire, etc doesnt mean the car will run faster. Proper setup and a good driver will win out. Having more ci's doesnt make a car fast. The right gearing and setup to accelerate does. Having more cubic inches means that the car will make hp, but will be slower to spin up than 'v8ers. That's why a 402 or 416 will be slower given the same hp. 2 cars matched power wise, the one who does more rpm by the end of the run will win. Good hp on a dyno means nothing in a drag race, a lot of area under the curve combined with a high hp number does.

Took a lot of effort to get to this point man, enjoy the hate. You just set a new standard and bar for everyone to achieve...especially for a DD car basically...
Well said
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Old 03-21-2017, 02:22 AM   #609
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It's cool man! FirebirdMuscle went into the tens on a Mamo top end also. I'm very curious to see your numbers also! I hate to admit this, I don't know the track rules that well. If that's true, then the track guys were cool, because I didn't get flagged or anything, and I don't have a cage. Just "nice run, man" and handed me the slip. And I don't WANT a cage.
My car is below and an IRS. I'm sure you thought I had an f-body but I like to go around corners. :-) The pumpkin from the 06+ explorer works VERY well and it a lot stronger (thicker mounting ears) than the older 03-04 cobra pumpkin. 8.8 has not been broken in an RX-7 yet. Unless someone has not made a post about it on the other forms I troll.

Plus, being under 3000lb with driver makes things a lot easier on parts.

At a 7k shift point I'd be right at 127MPH at the top of 4th. When I said I topped at 119 I had forgotten that was at 6600RPM. The extra 400 RPM is worth another 8MPH.

I could fit a 4 point without too much drama but interior space is already at a premium. I'd rather get kicked off the track than run a 5pt or worse an 8pt cage.

Last edited by Exidous; 03-21-2017 at 02:31 AM.
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Old 03-21-2017, 07:40 AM   #610
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Cages in street cars does suck. I've been warned several times. That's one reason I'm gonna go run some 1/8 mile stuff and try and get the car to take off a little better. My localish 1/8 mile track is a outlaw track to. So they shouldn't give me a hard time.
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Old 03-21-2017, 08:56 AM   #611
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My car is below and an IRS. I'm sure you thought I had an f-body but I like to go around corners. :-) The pumpkin from the 06+ explorer works VERY well and it a lot stronger (thicker mounting ears) than the older 03-04 cobra pumpkin. 8.8 has not been broken in an RX-7 yet. Unless someone has not made a post about it on the other forms I troll.

Plus, being under 3000lb with driver makes things a lot easier on parts.

At a 7k shift point I'd be right at 127MPH at the top of 4th. When I said I topped at 119 I had forgotten that was at 6600RPM. The extra 400 RPM is worth another 8MPH.

I could fit a 4 point without too much drama but interior space is already at a premium. I'd rather get kicked off the track than run a 5pt or worse an 8pt cage.
I had forgotten you were an RX7. Yeah, you're light as hell. Still got your old Wenkel? And yes, you're not doing good heads any justice by short shifting. There's just too much power past peak to take advantage of AND you get the benefit of being in a better spot on the curve on the upshift. In first you could be up in 7400 territory shift point and still be good.

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Cages in street cars does suck. I've been warned several times. That's one reason I'm gonna go run some 1/8 mile stuff and try and get the car to take off a little better. My localish 1/8 mile track is a outlaw track to. So they shouldn't give me a hard time.
I'm wondering if the 1/8 in Tuscon is outlaw. Be a drive, but at least I know I can drive it there and back. Completely agree on the cage.
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Old 03-21-2017, 09:53 AM   #612
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A buddy of my with a TT C5Z just gets thrown out repeatedly. Downside is you only get 1 pass...

I say cage it, you've gone too far to stop now... Then again, a cage is pretty invasive, so you might as well back-half it too...and since you're than far, just make it a tube chassis car. I mean, its logical right? jk, but a cage can be integrated REALLY well so that it's barely noticeable.
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Old 03-21-2017, 10:57 AM   #613
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I see the word "hate" come up & I hope you're not thinking of me. What it is to me is a little "common sense" & "experience". I apologize to Darth. Nothing stated was against you or your awesome car. Only the time slip.

These usually don't get any feedback. Someone post a time slip of a car going 11.2 w/ a 2.1 60'. Or just think the Hulk helped the car out in the 60'-330' & then changed back to Bruce Banner.

Maybe the car really cut a 1.7-1.8 60'. That also would make it look right.
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Old 03-21-2017, 11:22 AM   #614
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This is just because he had a bad launch is all. That's why the 60' wasnt good. Compare his 60-330 time with a car that runs low tens - I bet they are comparable because once sorted out, he should be in the lower 10's range.
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Old 03-21-2017, 12:34 PM   #615
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I see the word "hate" come up & I hope you're not thinking of me. What it is to me is a little "common sense" & "experience". I apologize to Darth. Nothing stated was against you or your awesome car. Only the time slip.

These usually don't get any feedback. Someone post a time slip of a car going 11.2 w/ a 2.1 60'. Or just think the Hulk helped the car out in the 60'-330' & then changed back to Bruce Banner.

Maybe the car really cut a 1.7-1.8 60'. That also would make it look right.
You know, that could well be possible. I was butthurt at my launch time. The slip I bogged, the car next to me ran a 1.8 60 and trapped 10.8@129. And his 330 was 4.5. Does that sort of work with what you're saying?

Tone of voice doesn't carry with posts, so I try to be careful how I word things and take things. Mike Morris has said repeatedly you're a cool guy, and I believe him. Seriously, no hard feelings In a way, I guess I felt like I was getting blasted for admitting to being a bad driver, because most people would wait until they had a good launch to post. It's almost like the above 10.8@129 would have been more believable - and I was disappointed I didn't get that TBH.

BTW, BR0s were trapping 13.8-14.5 all night long, so that was fun!
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Old 03-21-2017, 12:39 PM   #616
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A buddy of my with a TT C5Z just gets thrown out repeatedly. Downside is you only get 1 pass...

I say cage it, you've gone too far to stop now... Then again, a cage is pretty invasive, so you might as well back-half it too...and since you're than far, just make it a tube chassis car. I mean, its logical right? jk, but a cage can be integrated REALLY well so that it's barely noticeable.
You know, it's exactly that sort of thinking that got this car where it is. I can't find it, but there was a meme with a guy and his camaro was on the lift, and parts were scattered everywhere, and it said "I don't know what happened, I just wanted to change the oil pressure sensor"
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Old 03-21-2017, 04:10 PM   #617
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You know, that could well be possible. I was butthurt at my launch time. The slip I bogged, the car next to me ran a 1.8 60 and trapped 10.8@129. And his 330 was 4.5. Does that sort of work with what you're saying?

Tone of voice doesn't carry with posts, so I try to be careful how I word things and take things. Mike Morris has said repeatedly you're a cool guy, and I believe him. Seriously, no hard feelings In a way, I guess I felt like I was getting blasted for admitting to being a bad driver, because most people would wait until they had a good launch to post. It's almost like the above 10.8@129 would have been more believable - and I was disappointed I didn't get that TBH.

BTW, BR0s were trapping 13.8-14.5 all night long, so that was fun!
No problem man. Just a hot rodder that likes fast cars. Don't worry. The speed of your car also shows in the slip. Also at that DA, your car is fast!

That is a very good example. A 1.8 60', 4.5 330', & a 10.9 @129mph. The car that ran that time had a time of about 2.7, 60'-330', with more velocity & speed all the way down the track. Still slower than the 2.6 on the runs you had. Hard to believe.

You definitely have a 10 second, six speed, N/A, 347 sorted out.
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Old 03-22-2017, 01:59 AM   #618
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10 sec six speed 347 yes. Sorted.......I think not. :-p Fix that driver malfunction. I pulled a couple 1.8 60' on 320 tread ware inter-tubes.

Don't worry Darth, you'll get there.

I bet that CF clutch and driveshaft free up a few ponies at least on the dyno over my setup. One note. When you do hook that clutch will be fighting you. Not a lot of mass.
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Old 03-22-2017, 08:08 AM   #619
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I always thought moving the mass was the fight.
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Old 03-22-2017, 08:13 AM   #620
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I always thought moving the mass was the fight.
Are you refering to the car or the flywheel? :-) A heavier clutch will get you off the line better but this can be countered with more RPM. Later down the track I think a lighter clutch shines.

At least that's how it's worked in my limited experience.
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