550-600rwhp on turbo. What upgrades necessary to run reliably?
06-10-2004, 07:20 PM
#1
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550-600rwhp on turbo. What upgrades necessary to run reliably? Im looking for a new "big" mod to do. A turbo kit is something in mind. The kit should be similar to this (this one is made for LT1s - LS1 kits in progress). Parts included are:
-Large Frame T72 Garrett Turbocharger
-TiAL 40mm Wastegate
-Spearco Intercooler 30x12x3
-Bosch Blow off Valve
-Vortech FMU
-MSD High pressure inline pump
-All piping needed
-Silicone connectors
-Autometer Boost Gauge
-All required lines, fittings, clamps,etc that
will be needed
This kit on a bone stock LT1 (except for clutch) made 485 rwhp 530 rwtq @ 7 psi. It also made 530 rwhp and 580 rwtq @ 12 psi. This turbo should be fairly big
Heres the question of the day:
(1) If I wanted to make 550rwhp everyday on a turbo setup what will I need as far as internal engine upgrades? I do not have a single clue as far as what ill exactly need but common sense says ill need to lower compression and get forged stuff. But what exactly are we talking about here?
(2) A local friend told me that getting forged pistons would lower my compression and yet be more than ill ever need as far as internal upgrades to run 550-600rwhp reliabily. Is this true?
Setup is not intended to be the quickest 1/4 mile car, but a very fast street car that should trap hopefully over 130mph in the quarter mile.
So what do I need to upgrade to avoid messing up my motor?
Please tell me if my 550rwhp goals are too much even on forged pistons or what not.
-Large Frame T72 Garrett Turbocharger
-TiAL 40mm Wastegate
-Spearco Intercooler 30x12x3
-Bosch Blow off Valve
-Vortech FMU
-MSD High pressure inline pump
-All piping needed
-Silicone connectors
-Autometer Boost Gauge
-All required lines, fittings, clamps,etc that
will be needed
This kit on a bone stock LT1 (except for clutch) made 485 rwhp 530 rwtq @ 7 psi. It also made 530 rwhp and 580 rwtq @ 12 psi. This turbo should be fairly big
Heres the question of the day:
(1) If I wanted to make 550rwhp everyday on a turbo setup what will I need as far as internal engine upgrades? I do not have a single clue as far as what ill exactly need but common sense says ill need to lower compression and get forged stuff. But what exactly are we talking about here?
(2) A local friend told me that getting forged pistons would lower my compression and yet be more than ill ever need as far as internal upgrades to run 550-600rwhp reliabily. Is this true?
Setup is not intended to be the quickest 1/4 mile car, but a very fast street car that should trap hopefully over 130mph in the quarter mile.
So what do I need to upgrade to avoid messing up my motor?
Please tell me if my 550rwhp goals are too much even on forged pistons or what not.
06-10-2004, 08:22 PM
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Very possible to be done with a decent cam, free flowing exhaust, dished forged pistons, and a set of eagle h-beams with ARP bolts. ARP studs for the mains and heads would be a great idea also. Stock crank is more than sufficent for that power range.
06-10-2004, 08:31 PM
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Originally Posted by strokedls1
Very possible to be done with a decent cam, free flowing exhaust, dished forged pistons, and a set of eagle h-beams with ARP bolts. ARP studs for the mains and heads would be a great idea also. Stock crank is more than sufficent for that power range.
Thanks in advance
Also I feel my cam would work out quite well with a turbo setup according to what a friend of mine told me. He said typically having the duration and lift numbers the same will make a decent turbo cam even if it was not exactly "designed" for a turbo application. TR224 for all those that don't know. Cam specs is supposed to be: 224/224 .561/.561 114 LSA
Recieved cam is: 225/224.5 .565/.563 113.8 LSA
This is the spec sheet that came with the cam.
Last edited by 2002_TAWS6; 06-10-2004 at 08:38 PM.
06-10-2004, 08:45 PM
#4
Take a few minutes and call AP Engineering or Speed Inc if your gonna do it yourself, they are friendly and will tell you parts and costs. They both have good turbo experience as well. Just remember 550 hp from a turbo doesnt usually net the same ET's as 550 hp natural. That comment may spark debate, but what the hell, thats what the forum is for.
Lower compression is a good idea as well , and that come basically in two ways, dished pists or different heads, such as the 6.0 heads.
If your budget on the tighter side, (which, when doing a turbo set up still must be 12k+ minimum) just get some diamond forged pistons and some 6.0 heads...you can probably do that as cheap as $2500-$3000 with decent ported heads or $1400 with stock 6.0 heads...or hell, $700 with the correctly dished pistons.
Add 200 for arp main studs, another $500 for some eagle rods (though ome stock rods have been known to take a beating). You'll need a cam $400, Lifters $200, tranny?, rear?, chasis work, Tuning.......and the list goes on and on....call one of the shops.
Lower compression is a good idea as well , and that come basically in two ways, dished pists or different heads, such as the 6.0 heads.
If your budget on the tighter side, (which, when doing a turbo set up still must be 12k+ minimum) just get some diamond forged pistons and some 6.0 heads...you can probably do that as cheap as $2500-$3000 with decent ported heads or $1400 with stock 6.0 heads...or hell, $700 with the correctly dished pistons.
Add 200 for arp main studs, another $500 for some eagle rods (though ome stock rods have been known to take a beating). You'll need a cam $400, Lifters $200, tranny?, rear?, chasis work, Tuning.......and the list goes on and on....call one of the shops.
06-11-2004, 01:55 AM
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Originally Posted by Jammer
Just remember 550 hp from a turbo doesnt usually net the same ET's as 550 hp natural. That comment may spark debate, but what the hell, thats what the forum is for.
-- Oh yeah that I agree. (gotta remember im in the internal engine board not a forced induction board
)
If your budget on the tighter side, (which, when doing a turbo set up still must be 12k+ minimum)
-- $12k minimum? what? i assume you meant on a bone stock car with no bolt ons whatsoever?
just get some diamond forged pistons and some 6.0 heads...you can probably do that as cheap as $2500-$3000
-- Wow! I heard those 6.0 heads are being purchased for $600 on ebay. Awesome pistons should not cost me over $1000 isnt that overkill for 600rwhp applications (which is the most i'd ever go)? that would add up to $1600. Not trying to be a smart *** or anything but why did you mention $2500-3000? Are their any parts im missing?
with decent ported heads or $1400 with stock 6.0 heads...or hell, $700 with the correctly dished pistons.
Add 200 for arp main studs, another $500 for some eagle rods (though ome stock rods have been known to take a beating). You'll need a cam $400, Lifters $200, tranny?, rear?, chasis work, Tuning.......and the list goes on and on....call one of the shops.
-- Cant comment on the rods and arp main studs prices. Cam, I have and so far people told me it should work well with a turbo applications but ill double check that. So far 6.0 heads and pistons add up to $1600. All the rods and studs i can get for $1400 for sure. Thats $3000 on all the parts (and I should be overrating everything big time). Turbo kit should cost $4000 or hopefully less (we might buy 2 at one time other turbo kit a friend might be buying for an LT1 so im hoping a discount there). Whole price comes out to $7000 on parts. Tuning I can get for $300. Installation I can get really good deals on. Transmission is an M6 with a spec clutch so I should be fine? rear end I have. Chassis work, ill do suspension mods after im done with the project.
Im hoping everything comes out to under $8000 for sure. Ill make sure I call a couple of shops and ask a little more about pricing and parts i'll need......
-- Oh yeah that I agree. (gotta remember im in the internal engine board not a forced induction board
)If your budget on the tighter side, (which, when doing a turbo set up still must be 12k+ minimum)
-- $12k minimum? what? i assume you meant on a bone stock car with no bolt ons whatsoever?
just get some diamond forged pistons and some 6.0 heads...you can probably do that as cheap as $2500-$3000
-- Wow! I heard those 6.0 heads are being purchased for $600 on ebay. Awesome pistons should not cost me over $1000 isnt that overkill for 600rwhp applications (which is the most i'd ever go)? that would add up to $1600. Not trying to be a smart *** or anything but why did you mention $2500-3000? Are their any parts im missing?
with decent ported heads or $1400 with stock 6.0 heads...or hell, $700 with the correctly dished pistons.
Add 200 for arp main studs, another $500 for some eagle rods (though ome stock rods have been known to take a beating). You'll need a cam $400, Lifters $200, tranny?, rear?, chasis work, Tuning.......and the list goes on and on....call one of the shops.
-- Cant comment on the rods and arp main studs prices. Cam, I have and so far people told me it should work well with a turbo applications but ill double check that. So far 6.0 heads and pistons add up to $1600. All the rods and studs i can get for $1400 for sure. Thats $3000 on all the parts (and I should be overrating everything big time). Turbo kit should cost $4000 or hopefully less (we might buy 2 at one time other turbo kit a friend might be buying for an LT1 so im hoping a discount there). Whole price comes out to $7000 on parts. Tuning I can get for $300. Installation I can get really good deals on. Transmission is an M6 with a spec clutch so I should be fine? rear end I have. Chassis work, ill do suspension mods after im done with the project.
Im hoping everything comes out to under $8000 for sure. Ill make sure I call a couple of shops and ask a little more about pricing and parts i'll need......
06-11-2004, 02:26 AM
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I know this site isn't in favor of the Ford products, but maybe some of the members of www.turbomustangs.com could lend you a hand with this stuff. Just another reference for you. 
06-11-2004, 06:20 AM
#7
Originally Posted by 2002_TAWS6
Questions answered above in bold.. correct me if im wrong in the estimations and what not.
FI tuning for 300
. also are you factoring block prep, balancing, and putting the motor together, that'll run you another 1k+. Trending Topics
06-11-2004, 12:05 PM
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Originally Posted by jrp
jammer was referring to ported headss, you are right though, stock 6.0 heads can be had for under 500. also turbo's like a reverse split cam, if it were me i'd go with a 228/224 116 or something.
FI tuning for 300. also are you factoring block prep, balancing, and putting the motor together, that'll run you another 1k+.
FI tuning for 300
. also are you factoring block prep, balancing, and putting the motor together, that'll run you another 1k+.
06-11-2004, 01:10 PM
#9
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600rwhp...
Cheap version:
-upgraded valvesprings
-upgraded 340lph intank pump
-voltage blaster to pump
-60 lb Motortron injectors
Built version:
-Diamond -8.6cc FI pistons
-6.0 heads ~70cc, so effect engine compression of 9:1
-6.125 rods
-ARP L19 rod bolts
-H11 head studs
-Blue printed oil pump
-Cam in the 224/218 up to 230/224 range but no bigger
-Big frontmount intercooler
Should get there if you have enough turbo and fueling.
My sig numbers are thru an unlocked T400 on 110 leaded. So I'm 800rwhp with an M8 and would do 700rwhp on pump gas.
Cheap version:
-upgraded valvesprings
-upgraded 340lph intank pump
-voltage blaster to pump
-60 lb Motortron injectors
Built version:
-Diamond -8.6cc FI pistons
-6.0 heads ~70cc, so effect engine compression of 9:1
-6.125 rods
-ARP L19 rod bolts
-H11 head studs
-Blue printed oil pump
-Cam in the 224/218 up to 230/224 range but no bigger
-Big frontmount intercooler
Should get there if you have enough turbo and fueling.
My sig numbers are thru an unlocked T400 on 110 leaded. So I'm 800rwhp with an M8 and would do 700rwhp on pump gas.
06-11-2004, 10:51 PM
#10
12k was an average mid range number, you may sneak by with 8k, but it can quickly snowball if you on the cautious side or become more performance oriented.
For instance, (and I'll use round numbers, or price ranges)
Ported oil pimp $120-$160
Timing set...$90 for the heavy double roller or $250 for something better
Injectors... $225-$450 depending
Pushrods $125
Lifters $200
Stock 6.0 heads $600
Perhaps valve springs retainers and Incolnels valves and porting $1000-$2000
Frame conectors, panhard, lcas $450
Most turbo systems go in MUCH easier with a tubular K - $400-$500
Oil cooler, clutch resurfacing, tires,gauges, pods, good brake pads and blue fluid, plugs, wires, ported TB, good rings and maybe tool steel pins, block and crank prep and balancing after new pistons are in, a head gaskets...lots different gaskets for that matter (unless you choose to reuse them the o-ring ones) T-Clamps to replace what many systems give you (std hose clamps) for the intercooler plumbing, Installation, tuning, ls1 edit or some type of monitoring software at least, and the list goes on on the "what about these" type of parts.
Now I understand you can skip most of this and just bolt on and go.
Then, once you feel the power, you will want to turn up the boost, which brings on other issues. If you will honestly feel content w/ 500-550 ish, I'd say 12k minimum if you add up all associated and unaccounted for costs. I'd like nothing better than for yu to prove me wrong, and keep it together all at the same time. GO FOR IT!!!! We need more LS1 turbo cars out here!
For instance, (and I'll use round numbers, or price ranges)
Ported oil pimp $120-$160
Timing set...$90 for the heavy double roller or $250 for something better
Injectors... $225-$450 depending
Pushrods $125
Lifters $200
Stock 6.0 heads $600
Perhaps valve springs retainers and Incolnels valves and porting $1000-$2000
Frame conectors, panhard, lcas $450
Most turbo systems go in MUCH easier with a tubular K - $400-$500
Oil cooler, clutch resurfacing, tires,gauges, pods, good brake pads and blue fluid, plugs, wires, ported TB, good rings and maybe tool steel pins, block and crank prep and balancing after new pistons are in, a head gaskets...lots different gaskets for that matter (unless you choose to reuse them the o-ring ones) T-Clamps to replace what many systems give you (std hose clamps) for the intercooler plumbing, Installation, tuning, ls1 edit or some type of monitoring software at least, and the list goes on on the "what about these" type of parts.
Now I understand you can skip most of this and just bolt on and go.
Then, once you feel the power, you will want to turn up the boost, which brings on other issues. If you will honestly feel content w/ 500-550 ish, I'd say 12k minimum if you add up all associated and unaccounted for costs. I'd like nothing better than for yu to prove me wrong, and keep it together all at the same time. GO FOR IT!!!! We need more LS1 turbo cars out here!
06-11-2004, 11:55 PM
#12
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Very interesting thread but i gotta ask. Are these numbers put up by Mike and Pro Stock John with out O-ringing the Heads and having no probs with blowing head gaskets?
These are the 10 bolt Ls1 heads were talking about right?
These are the 10 bolt Ls1 heads were talking about right?
06-12-2004, 12:22 AM
#13
Neither has seen the track, but I'd bet Mike will not have a head gasket issue at his power level...It seems 750+ is when the problems sometimes arise...John has some of the best parts available inc. Whites H-11 head studs.
I went w/ O-ringing the heads and graphite gaskets...I may or may not have been better off w/ cometics...North South will bring some new and different combos out and may just muddy the waters with new info, good ET's and broken parts... Keep your eyes open.
I went w/ O-ringing the heads and graphite gaskets...I may or may not have been better off w/ cometics...North South will bring some new and different combos out and may just muddy the waters with new info, good ET's and broken parts... Keep your eyes open.
