Norbit2

I will do the best I can to explain in detail what I am looking for.

Main Question:
What to do for power plant:
MP112 Stock LS1, Built/Forged LS1 with TVS Supercharger, Built LS3, Crate LS3 with TVS Supercharger, LS7 with small cam,


Car will already have in it:
TR6060 (Tick level 5 950FT/LBs), Monster Twin-Disk Clutch, Tick Master, Quicktime Bellhousing, PST Carbon driveshaft with 1350s, Hawks 8.8 or 12 bolt Strange Rear, All UMI parts, Koni yellows and Strano springs and swaybars, some good brand of very sticky tires(Currently have R888s)


Goals From MOST important:
DURABLE, DURABLE, DURABLE, Torque(I want the car to keep you pinnned to the back of the seat up to 155mph, I want to feel like I am taking flight) beat 2017 zl1 camaro on street roll , low 11s, maybe dip into super high 10s in 1/4,

What I plan on doing with the car:
Mainly will be driven on the street. This is the reason I am NOT doing drag racing suspension. I want to be able to corner with the car. It will be driven HARD alot, as my wife and I like to have fun thus the reason for the 6 Speed. I want every gear to pull hard and want power everywhere. Keep in mind, I live in South Carolina and it gets hot and humid in the summer time. We may even do some coast to coast road-trips. Car will see the drag-strip maybe twice a year, will do some autocross events and may do a track day twice a year.

Now, based on all of the information above, I tried to make it as clear as I can what I will have and what I need help with. So, the question is what is the best route to get me to my goals? I know some options are less costly than others, that IS NOT one of the factors. My biggest concern is durability. I would like this set-up to last 50-100K miles. I know high HP and durability are tough things to get together but that is why I am seeking experienced input. I am going to list some options I came up with through my research. I will not list specifics parts for these engine builds but would appreciate any details you would like to add in regards with your choice and what parts you would use and why. If you have any type of similar horse power with lots of miles on the current set up, that is trouble free, please do shear.

Options I came up with:
MP112 on Stock bolt-on LS1, Built/Forged LS1 with TVS Supercharger, Built LS3, Crate LS3 with TVS Supercharger, LS7 with small cam, or something else; please shear.

Also, I would prefer to stay away from Meth-Injection and want to run 93 Octane.


PS: I attached some pics of car because pictures are always nice. This car only has 15k miles on it.

Norbit2

Anybody still on these forums?

WBO_COTTO

Read the stickies...I mean a 5.3 truck engine with FBO, 9 inch, somewhat built tranny will get you what you seem like you want.

JD_AMG

You will probably have better luck in the gen 3 internal engine section.
I can tell you this though, if you seriously want to do road race or auto-x, forced induction is not a great idea, you are adding weight and lots of heat, which will require extra cooling which is even more weight over the front.
If money really is no issue I would suggest a large cube (427 maybe, LS7 or similar) mild cam/good heads setup, that way you get a great torque curve and don't have to strain the engine by revving the hell out of it, and this will help with oil temps too (very important). Also aluminum block, there is no need to add and extra 100lbs over the front of the car with an iron block, that is pointless for someone who wants a handling setup.
Cubes are your friend, you can build a 7+L LSx that is the same weight as a 5.3L LSx and have WAY more power/torque and a better torque curve and more reliability because you are not pushing the engine nearly as hard to make the power. Too many people think building a high revving smaller displacement engine is smart for road racing when really by comparison its just eating their money, has less reliability and less drive ability.

RevGTO

iTrader: (12)

Moving it over here, per JD's comment. There's nothing uniquely Firebird about your questions; they pertain strictly to the engine.

99 Black Bird T/A

iTrader: (4)

Wegner Automotive - I had two friends in Wegner's NASCAR engine building group that did my 99 TA's heads and cam install back in 2002. With XER cam lobes - 122,000 miles on the heads & cam package and no issues. Car has 154,000+ miles total. Wegner's attention to detail is outstanding. Wegner has done much LS development like the Grand National LS engine.

Likewise, these LS legendary builders come to mind.

Kurt Urban - Kurt Urban Performance

Billy Briggs -Billy Briggs Racing Engines

Katech

BES - Bischoff Engine Service

These would be my top five choices for the sort of engine build suggested. I've had direct experience with Wegner Automotive employees first hand and their attention to detail and dedication to check and rechecking parts going into a motor build.

I favor the NA LS7 427+ big cubes, with one of the engine builders choice of cam spec'd cam for road racing and longevity. Likewise, with engine builders chlice of cylinder heads.

slogo

Cubic Inches is what you need

http://www.erlperformance.com/produc...pplication=103

Darth_V8r

iTrader: (4)

For your goals with a super broad torque curve and durability, the LS7 is the way to go, because you can use the mildest cam possible and still hit the power goals. This will lead to valvetrain stability, less vibrations, improved driveability - everything you seem to want.

Do a LLSR cam kit through cam motion, LS7 top end through Tony Mamo, you'll be sitting pretty, and you'll have daily driver reliability.

99 Black Bird T/A

iTrader: (4)

If the LLSR setup is seriously considered that mentioned in the above post.....I would consider the on going maintenance requirements.

Important maintance issues for LLSR set up:
1) ensuring valve lash are checked/adjusted as needed on a frequent basis
2) spring maintenance; should be prepared to swap them out every 12K to 15K miles.

Not really a big deal if you can do yourself, could be a hassle if the car has to go back to the shop for frequent checks and springs over the engines expected 50,000 to 100,000 mile life.

Have any LS LLSR set ups been driven a 100,000 miles successfully without issues? I don't know. I would expect with careful maintenance and checks its very possible.

100,000 + mile reliability is very doable with hydraulic roller set ups for sure. I've even done that before with the unfriendly harsh XER cam lobes with a couple of valve spring changes. A milder hydraulic cam lobe could go longer between spring changes.

For the least hassle, I would talk with the choosen engine builder about cam selection and favor a milder road race hydraulic cam lobe over the LLSR setup in this case based on the reliability and durability required for this application.

Darth_V8r

iTrader: (4)

Those are all valid points. The LLSR hasn't been around long enough to have that, but I know Kip put them on his own car and last I heard he was over 24K. The responsiveness of the engine is quite addicting, though. I'll stop there so as not to derail the thread.

Certainly a well chosen hydraulic set up will hit the OP's goals just as easily.

Another option, OP, would be to pick up a used LSA from a CTS. I rode in Tony Mamo's CTS, which he did cam, lifters, and a few other things making a DD 690 horsepower. Thing was like a cadillac with a jet engine power curve. idled smooth as silk too. Acceleration was like a plane on the runway. The power just never let up. it's a thought

Norbit2

I would like an LSA engine but I do not want to chop the car up and the swap would be much more complicated. As others have stated I would also like to keep the weight down; after all, just lightening the load would really make a big difference.


From what I am reading I am leaning toward the LS3 or LS7.

I am shying away from the LS7 because they are more maintenance sensitive. I have other vehicles that are already maintenance sensitive that I take care of myself and between that and a family I just don't have the patients or time. Thus, I will spend the money to build what I want correctly the first time.

I think a mild built LS3 with 3.73 gears would have great street manners and seat of the pants feel.

Darth_V8r

iTrader: (4)

You should check out a guy named lazerlamonte. He's got a thread in the dyno section, hit damn near 480 on a stock internal LS3 with a bunch of carefully chosen mods and rockers.

I've driven his car, and it's quite fast, but when I drove it , it was only making 440.

I'm thinking he'll set all the fifth gen records once he gets track time.

Norbit2

Darth V8r I finally found it: lazerlemonta . Reading through that makes me think I can take the LS376 480 GM crate motor and with a couple tweaks and my ARH headers can make a nice solid engine.

99 Black Bird T/A; thank you for the list of people. That is valuable to have.

Orange Juice

iTrader: (3)

Just be careful of the heat generated. I have coated stainless headers and if I could get at them I would wrap them as well.
Even with a Ron Davis rad the car go so hot from a slow crawl over a bridge one day that I melted the plastic bushings in the steering column as well as the rubber snubber in the steering shaft.

ddnspider

iTrader: (26)

5-600RWHP rules out a stock cube heads/cam setup, ESPECIALLY one that is supposed to last 50k miles or more with no major maintenance or freshening. Cubes will need to be 408 or more, somewhere around 10.5-11.5:1 CR. Thats still going to keep you in the low 500rwhp range. If you want to sit at 550-600rwhp forced induction is the way to go. I'd look into a gen 4 5.3 liter motor, small cam, and either your choice of procharger, or a smallish turbo that will light off quick. It'll drive excellent until you put your foot into it and you'll have more room to grow later one.....when you invariable want MORE.

Norbit2

Low 500RWHP is fine. If I went forced induction it would be a roots style blower but I would rather not to keep the weight down in front. I still want the car to handle at its best for what it is. Also, more maintenance items are involved with forced induction. The option is always there.

jmilz28

iTrader: (13)

What is your budget on this? Be realistic...

ddnspider

iTrader: (26)

Roots isn't the answer, you can make a turbo or centrifugal just as fun with less heatsoak issues and room to grow. And the only maintenance items on any FI setup I've been involved with is spark plugs and oil changes if you do it right.

KCS

iTrader: (20)

I would just go with the built LS3. You should be able to make 500+ pretty easily with 416ci as long as the heads/cam selection aren't way off in left field. If you can afford a sleeved block, then you can get even more displacement (ie torque) without sacrificing reliability.

Norbit2

Budget is 15-20K Built tuned and installed. Depending on the plug and playness of the setup, I may do the install. I would rather stay at the 15k mark.


I completely agree buy I very much like the clean look of a Roots type blower. Frankly, because I am now moving more toward the best handling and least weight set up, I am thinking of throwing FI out the window for this car.