Big cube peeps, come inside.....
06-29-2004, 08:59 PM
#1
Big cube peeps, come inside..... Those of you with big (400+ inch) engines, please describe the difference between a H/C 346 (since I assume most of you had one before your big motor) and your current engine. Driveability, power, torque, smoothness, etc. Try to "sell" us 346 H/C guys on a bigger motor, likes, dislikes, etc. Describe the differences, as best you can, please. What motor specs do you have? (Bore, stroke, cam, compression, heads, etc) What did your motor dyno/run?
Thanks, Shawn
Thanks, Shawn
06-29-2004, 09:45 PM
#3
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All I can really say is TORQUE with awesome driveability. My heads and cam set up was Stage III 5.3 heads and a comp 228/232 550ish 114LS along with the bolt-ons in my sig.
There is really no comparison when it comes down to power, performance, and streetability. The only "draw back" for me is how much it cost to run reliably (fuel, trans, diff, etc. upgrades). In both cases the CR was pretty close, 11.3:1 (stroker) and 11:1 (H/C). Where in Chicago are you located? I can let you get a feel for yourself on my up-coming 427. Should be done in about 2 weeks or at least I hope so.
There is really no comparison when it comes down to power, performance, and streetability. The only "draw back" for me is how much it cost to run reliably (fuel, trans, diff, etc. upgrades). In both cases the CR was pretty close, 11.3:1 (stroker) and 11:1 (H/C). Where in Chicago are you located? I can let you get a feel for yourself on my up-coming 427. Should be done in about 2 weeks or at least I hope so.
06-29-2004, 09:50 PM
#4
It's kind of hard to explain the difference in detail. All I can say is everything you want in a H/C 346ci is in my motor but MORE.. Right now I cant see why someone would want to go bigger than what I have.. 
I cant imagine having a boat load more tq/hp..
I cant imagine having a boat load more tq/hp..
06-29-2004, 09:51 PM
#5
410 cubic inches here.
Torque monster, and loves the nitrous much more.
On my stock short block anything over a 200 shot and the car was hatin life. New motor anythink under a 200 shot and the car is hatin life.
Make sure you have a good trans/ driveshaft.
Expensive but fun.
Torque monster, and loves the nitrous much more.
On my stock short block anything over a 200 shot and the car was hatin life. New motor anythink under a 200 shot and the car is hatin life.
Make sure you have a good trans/ driveshaft.
Expensive but fun.
06-29-2004, 10:26 PM
#6
Simplest answer - Torque EVERYWHERE!
It's NO comparison to ANY 346 CID H/C setup for driveability and forgiveability with driving. For example, to get the most out of a high output 346 H/C setup you really need to be a very skilled driver (assuming MN6) to get the most out of the setup. The same is also true with big cubes hower you have a LOT more "fudge" room. Since the larger cube setup makes more AVERAGE power (area under the curve) you can drive less well (shift slower, not high enough, etc because you have so much power to fall back into) and still put down great track times. You can also run with more weight and a less well setup car and still run very well compared to the race setup H/C setup (i.e. weight reduction, no accessories like A/C, !PS, etc)
Also, for daily driving abilities, no comparsion. If a 346 high output H/C setup even claims to be comparable in torque range, especially down low, they're flat out wrong. Most 427 setups make OVER 480 lb/ft of RWTQ starting at 3200 RPMs that carries higher and all the way to redline. No H/C setup can touch that and in daily driving and city driving where torque is needed at these RPMs it's of no comparison to a H/C high output setup b/c they make they're power at high RPMs.
If you have the funds, you CAN NOT go wrong with more cubes over a H/C setup of ANY kind. The pros of the larger cubes completely destroy any reason to stay with H/C assuming appropriate funds for a proper larger cube setup.
It's NO comparison to ANY 346 CID H/C setup for driveability and forgiveability with driving. For example, to get the most out of a high output 346 H/C setup you really need to be a very skilled driver (assuming MN6) to get the most out of the setup. The same is also true with big cubes hower you have a LOT more "fudge" room. Since the larger cube setup makes more AVERAGE power (area under the curve) you can drive less well (shift slower, not high enough, etc because you have so much power to fall back into) and still put down great track times. You can also run with more weight and a less well setup car and still run very well compared to the race setup H/C setup (i.e. weight reduction, no accessories like A/C, !PS, etc)
Also, for daily driving abilities, no comparsion. If a 346 high output H/C setup even claims to be comparable in torque range, especially down low, they're flat out wrong. Most 427 setups make OVER 480 lb/ft of RWTQ starting at 3200 RPMs that carries higher and all the way to redline. No H/C setup can touch that and in daily driving and city driving where torque is needed at these RPMs it's of no comparison to a H/C high output setup b/c they make they're power at high RPMs.
If you have the funds, you CAN NOT go wrong with more cubes over a H/C setup of ANY kind. The pros of the larger cubes completely destroy any reason to stay with H/C assuming appropriate funds for a proper larger cube setup.
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06-29-2004, 11:49 PM
#8
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The difference is truely amazing. The first time I rode in mine the only thing I could think was "whoa". It was such a huge difference. For the first time I thought to myself that the car was finally as fast as I had always wanted it to be.
For driveablilty the tq down low is unbeatable, idle etc remind me of my TR 224 112 except the 408 is more streetable cause of the tq. Bottom line is if you need a new motor get the bigger cubes. you wont regret it.
For driveablilty the tq down low is unbeatable, idle etc remind me of my TR 224 112 except the 408 is more streetable cause of the tq. Bottom line is if you need a new motor get the bigger cubes. you wont regret it.
06-30-2004, 06:23 PM
#9
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I agree with everything these guys say. Torque out the ying-yang. Heck you can punch it doin 80mph in 6th gear and move out. Eyeball flattening acceleration when the tires aren't spinning..hehehe...Talk about a sleeper setup. I've fooled a many of 'em already....never underestimate a stock looking F-body.
I've only made one halfway decent run with the new setup(crowded track) and several things went wrong on that run but it still went 11.3 at 123+ and I was only halfway through 4th at the stripe. I need more gear for good NA runs, definitely. My tuning was still off some then too. That's with a 1.69 60ft at 3700lb raceweight. I'm also not a super experienced or super talented driver.
I've only made one halfway decent run with the new setup(crowded track) and several things went wrong on that run but it still went 11.3 at 123+ and I was only halfway through 4th at the stripe. I need more gear for good NA runs, definitely. My tuning was still off some then too. That's with a 1.69 60ft at 3700lb raceweight. I'm also not a super experienced or super talented driver.
10-18-2004, 02:15 PM
#13
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I had a 347 M6 H/C Tea stage two 224-228 .585 @114. Long tubes dual exhaust. Best the car went on ET streets was 11.37 Car would not hook. I had to dump the clutch so high it wouldn't hold. That was with a 150 shot of TNT! Car is a auto now. Same tires and suspension and went 10.58 @ 128 with a Speed inc 427. Runs on 93 pump gas. I have a 3.55 gear so highway is no problem. Power is amazing, its everywhere! There is NOTHING I miss about my H/C combo. My old set up made around 418 with street tires and a M-6, stock drive shaft . New set up through turbo 350 and slicks! 518 RWHP! I know with a gear and a N/A converter I could go bottom 10's. Any other questions you can call. 630-531-5666. Andy.
10-18-2004, 03:28 PM
#16
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Me three!
Scott, are you going to Steele on Sunday? I had a friend call and he told me they are doing a T&T then. If he's right I may just go for the heck of it.
Scott, are you going to Steele on Sunday? I had a friend call and he told me they are doing a T&T then. If he's right I may just go for the heck of it.
10-18-2004, 03:28 PM
#17
The Bull
I love my 382 all bore. It makes awesome power across the board and was more then enough to cause trouble on the street. To be honest I really loved my M6 compared to the TH400 on the street, but at the track the TH400 makes it a lot of fun. The good part about an all bore is that you are a crank and some pistons away from a 422/427 when you are ready.
10-18-2004, 03:39 PM
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Originally Posted by LawmanSS
Me, too!
10-18-2004, 03:40 PM
#20
The Bull
Hydraulic roller at the time was between 5 and 6k for a short block. I went with a solid roller setup and it added another $3k to rework the heads, get the shaft mounted rockers, etc. etc. Just guessing but you could probably get one today for around $8k assuming you already have worked over heads that would absolutely whip the crap out of mine. At least until this spring that is.
The nitrous setup added another couple grand to get all the bottles, brackets, fuel system, etc. The transmission swap wasn't cheap either as I went with higher end parts for mine compared to others. Followed by the shocks, brakes, wheels, tires, roll cage, seats, safety belts, fire suite, halon fire system, etc. The list goes on and on. It's actually pretty disgusting to look at how much stuff I bought and broke last year. Part of the reason for laying low this year. That and I ran out of things to buy. I've been saving up for a bigger truck and trailer too.
The nitrous setup added another couple grand to get all the bottles, brackets, fuel system, etc. The transmission swap wasn't cheap either as I went with higher end parts for mine compared to others. Followed by the shocks, brakes, wheels, tires, roll cage, seats, safety belts, fire suite, halon fire system, etc. The list goes on and on. It's actually pretty disgusting to look at how much stuff I bought and broke last year. Part of the reason for laying low this year. That and I ran out of things to buy. I've been saving up for a bigger truck and trailer too.