flow numbers for afr 205cc
08-21-2004, 08:32 AM
#1
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flow numbers for afr 205cc Just got a set of 205 afr's to check and experiment with. flowed them on my bench with my 3.9 bore the same way I flow all my heads. Let me first say the head is great, theres alot of material in the ports and the deck and the short side turn is sweet on these things, which is going to help make these things the bomb when Myself and other capable head porters are done with them. But If everyone thinks they are going to be magical and make huge power becuase they are AFR's and have little port volume, sorry to bust your bubble. they wil make good power but not as much as a top line stg2 5.3 or ls6 head. flow numbers are as followed at 28 iches 3.9 bore sf600, yadda yadda
lift -radius-ls6 intake
200-140 - 137
300-203 - 191
400-243 - 230
450-264 - 246
500-278 - 254
550-290 - 263
600-298 - 269
the ex peaked at 228 through a pipe
Ill check in soon with some after porting numbers
lift -radius-ls6 intake
200-140 - 137
300-203 - 191
400-243 - 230
450-264 - 246
500-278 - 254
550-290 - 263
600-298 - 269
the ex peaked at 228 through a pipe
Ill check in soon with some after porting numbers
08-21-2004, 08:55 AM
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Originally Posted by absolute
But If everyone thinks they are going to be magical and make huge power becuase they are AFR's and have little port volume, sorry to bust your bubble. they wil make good power but not as much as a top line stg2 5.3 or ls6 head.
Compare port volume and cross section per CFM obtained and see why these "may actually be" BETTER than the LS6 "hogged" out heads...
Flow bench numbers are only ONE factor in overall performance. I've see small block Ford heads that are getting HUGE flow figures and not performing compared to a lesser CFM set. Some of them from a few guys over --->>>>
When it comes to better ACCELERATION, it's a balanced combination of parts and more often than not, the "bigger" stuff falls short for most dual purpose combinations and sometimes, even some race only engines...
Not trying to get into a P'ing contest but "all" factors need to be considered before you can make a blanket statement like "they won't make as much power as XXX"... Test them in real world conditions and let us know...
Ed
08-21-2004, 10:45 AM
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Originally Posted by Brian Tooley
We have tested them on the flowbench and on the dyno and have seen em at the track, they are no better then a good Stg 2 5.3 or Stg 2/2.5 LS6 head. On our dyno they are 40-60 RWTQ down in the 3500-4000 RPM range. For a head that has no hand blending it is great, but any of our nicely hand blended stuff will out power it everywhere, especially down low.
Thanks Brian...
How was the track performance??
As far as Ford stuff, I have used this example on this board many times, but I will use it again. My cousin Sam Vincent had a 400 cfm head that was 280 cc port volume on his 438 cu in nitrous engine, on motor it ran 146 mph in the quarter, he went to our 311cc Neal head that flowed 420cfm and the car ran 152 mph in the quarter, he then went to our 318cc Neal head that flows 440 cfm and the car then ran 155 mph in the quarter. It is now the fastest nitrous NMRA Outlaw car ever at 180 mph on the spray. Every time I put a bigger higher flowing head on a car, it makes more power and goes faster.
Thanks Brian...
Question for ya... Though I don't want to mention Manny Buginga's STOCK Victor heads and how "they" run in Outlaw, but for a moment, forget power adder stuff for a change since they have little relevance to how good a head performs....
How about say.... Mark Daniels?????
Last year when I put a nitrous specific head on my Corvette that flowed 320 @ .600" intake at 232 cc port volume and a exhaust port that flowed 280 @ .600" with a pipe, I fully expected to see loss of power on motor, but I was pleasently surprised when it made more RWTQ and RWHP then any stock displacement A4 LS1 we have ever seen on my dyno!
Thanks Brian...
How was the track performance?? Without the bottle...
Ed, the difference between people like you and people like Jay and myself, is while you are sitting around talking us down, we are working our butts off learning, you should do the same. Not to start a P'ing contest of course
Ain't sitting around Brian... I'm alway helping my niche of customers run extremely well and it shows so don't tell me how hard I need to work to satisfy them. Some of them former TEA people too... Not trying to start a P'ing contest of course...
Ed
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08-22-2004, 01:13 AM
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Originally Posted by Brian Tooley
We have tested them on the flowbench and on the dyno and have seen em at the track, they are no better then a good Stg 2 5.3 or Stg 2/2.5 LS6 head. On our dyno they are 40-60 RWTQ down in the 3500-4000 RPM range. For a head that has no hand blending it is great, but any of our nicely hand blended stuff will out power it everywhere, especially down low.
Is this the McRat application your refering to (As I recall, a car that was never dyno tuned before it was run on your dyno) or have you conducted some back to back cylinder head dyno testing that you would be willing to share? I mean no disrespect I've just been following all these AFR cylinder head threads for a while and am trying to put your post into the proper context.
08-24-2004, 04:13 PM
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I had my car dyno'd right after the install and "emergency street tune" at TEA using the AFR's and a 224/228 cam. Yeah, the TQ is down somewhat from where it should be, but there are some reasons:
Full stock mufflers
Needs a dyno tune
1 7/8" headers
We still ran quicker than all but two cars at the Z06VetteFest at Bowling Green, and were beaten only by a 427ci car and a nitrous car. The best MPH the car ever ran before the AFR's was 118 through open exhaust, no passenger seat, and no A/C belt. With the AFR's we ran 123.8mph with the mufflers, seat in, and cold A/C. So the power is there.
As I've read on this board quite often, the proof is at the track, not the dyno.
Now if I can just get it tuned, I'm going Viper Hunting.
Full stock mufflers
Needs a dyno tune
1 7/8" headers
We still ran quicker than all but two cars at the Z06VetteFest at Bowling Green, and were beaten only by a 427ci car and a nitrous car. The best MPH the car ever ran before the AFR's was 118 through open exhaust, no passenger seat, and no A/C belt. With the AFR's we ran 123.8mph with the mufflers, seat in, and cold A/C. So the power is there.
As I've read on this board quite often, the proof is at the track, not the dyno.
Now if I can just get it tuned, I'm going Viper Hunting.
08-24-2004, 04:30 PM
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Can someone explain to me how hand porting can be better than AFR's own CNC porting??? I don't understand how anything could be as precise and consistant as a CNC mill (or whatever is used).
It sure is nice to have a company that gives realistic flow numbers. I'm new to the LS1 stuff (and V8 stuff in general), but I know in the Supra world this is RARE.
lift-absolute's-AFR's
200-140-140
300-203-200
400-243-251
500-278-281
550-290-292
600-298-301
It sure is nice to have a company that gives realistic flow numbers. I'm new to the LS1 stuff (and V8 stuff in general), but I know in the Supra world this is RARE.
lift-absolute's-AFR's
200-140-140
300-203-200
400-243-251
500-278-281
550-290-292
600-298-301
08-24-2004, 08:40 PM
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A lot of the vendors>>>have CNC heads then hand-blended to be a little better.Still looks like good numbers and the AFR seems to make good power,small port with good flow #"s. 
08-29-2004, 05:03 PM
#18
FormerVendor
I guess unlike Ed I am used to seeing the dynos numbers relate fairly closely to the track with the SAME car and SAME setup and SAME air otherwise I agree with him that you can't always compare numbers. I think the AFR heads are gonna rock though it is true that they are not magic. They are a better starting point though since they have good P to V as far as the 205 model and they are flowing good numbers with smaller cross section too. I also see this as all good. The 225 models should make more power for the bigger engine deals and there may even be something bigger on the horizon for racing.
Our heads while very large compared to some others seem to run very well at the track as do our large heads at the school on our street going small engine hydro roller car of years past or our solid roller big engine cars of now that went almost 145 mph a few weeks aga at HRP at almost 3300 pounds with 4000 foot air and in the next few weeks I think that big hogged out LS6 headed car may go low 9s in front of everyone all over again. The strange thing is that it also dynos real high too! No one understands it!
Our heads while very large compared to some others seem to run very well at the track as do our large heads at the school on our street going small engine hydro roller car of years past or our solid roller big engine cars of now that went almost 145 mph a few weeks aga at HRP at almost 3300 pounds with 4000 foot air and in the next few weeks I think that big hogged out LS6 headed car may go low 9s in front of everyone all over again. The strange thing is that it also dynos real high too! No one understands it!
08-31-2004, 08:46 AM
#20
FormerVendor
Originally Posted by Mike at Boost Performance.co.uk
Can anybody compare these to ls6 heads which are quoted by GM in gms/sec? I'd like to make a comparison if possible but don't know how
