felton316

Well, some of you may know that I've been battling an oiling issue since Jan. It all started when I installed my TR227/224 and ARE ported oil pump. After the install, oil pressure dropped to ZERO in about 2 minutes and never came back. I sent the oil pump back to ARE and Barry (excellent guy to deal with) sent me out another new oil pump. I wanted to make sure there was no trash in the oil pan, so I decided to remove it to check. Since the pan can't be removed in the car(f-body), I decided to drop the k-member and replace it with a BMR tubular k-member. Which was a whole big mess in its own, since most of the holes didn't line up and I had to do some modifying to get it to fit. While I had the oil pan off I also installed a set of ARP Pro rod bolts. The oil pan was pretty clean inside but had a little sludge on the bottom, nothing out of the ordinary. I removed and thoroughly cleaned the pick up tube. Some of the local guys believed it could all be due to the blue oil pump pick-up tube o-ring, so I installed the pick-up tube, oil pump, and o-ring while they were off the car and installed them all as a unit.

Well, that brings us up to today. Filled the car up with 6 qts of fresh mobil 1, and started her up. Fired up nicely, and in a matter of seconds I had 70psi of oil pressure. I let the car sit and idle for 15 minutes while I topped off the radiator. Pressure remained excellent, so I decided to take a test drive. I went around a couple of blocks, and everything seemed normal, so I decided to make a pass. Damn does this thing pull. Now, on my way home I noticed the oil pressure dropped to 40psi, I didn't think nothing of it at first, but it kept creeping until it finally fell off to 0. I turned the car off, and while we decided if we were gonna push it home, I cranked her up again and pressure was back!! So we hopped in the car and tried to make it home, but the longer I drove the pressure kept falling. I would shut the car off and just coast for awhile.

So here comes the problem: It makes excellent pressure, but it seems to suck the pan dry (nothing registers on the dip stick), but if I let it sit for 10-15 seconds all oil pressure is restored..... as if it drained back into the pan. So now I don't know what to do? The only thing I haven't done is pull the heads. Is it possible that there is something in the pushrod holes preventing the oil from travelling? I am using the hardened push rods from Thunder racing, if that matters? So, now I am asking for ideas at what to look at as possible problems. All ideas and help will be greatly appreciated.

Sorry for such a long post...
List of everything I changed:
TR227/224 camshaft
Comp 918 valve springs
Thunder racing hardened pushrods
Roller master double roller timing set
ARE ported oil pump
ARP Pro-series rod bolts
LS6 intake
LS6 valley cover
Removed EGR and AIR
BMR tubular k-member

Thanks again for any help!!

<small>[ March 31, 2003, 12:22 AM: Message edited by: felton316 ]</small>

blown 346

iTrader: (25)

You have oil pressure for a few minutes and then it drastically drops to 0? What about your sending unit? It might not be able to keep up with the new pump. Just an Idea. Your not losing oil so thats a good sign. Thats basically all I can come up with without looking at the car myself. Im interested to know what the problem is.

C_Williams

As you stated, it appears you are pulling the oil out the pan and not returning it properly or fast enough to feed the pump.

Have you tried an over fill of oil to see if an extra quart or more mitigates or extends the time to the loss of pressure?

DailyAluminumBlock

Do a search on the ls6 valley cover replacement. I believe another person had the same problem as you. Good luck!

felton316

It has great pressure while idleing, but when driving around it will suck the pan dry. I'm gonna add a extra qt or two today to see how it does, before tearing it down again.

2xLS1

iTrader: (25)

The only place for that oil to go would be in the lifter valley and under the valve covers. I would check the oil drain back holes in those areas for sludge build up or some kind of obstruction.

felton316

Well, I'm gonna pull the valve covers and the pushrods, and check for obstructions. I already replaced the sender twice, and when it runs low on pressure, the engine starts knocking, so its no a gauge problem.

felton316

It might have been my original post, long ago. Since then I have pulled the intake, valley cover, timeing cover, oil pan, windage tray,valve covers, and whole bunch of other little pieces looking for something strange that could be causing this. The only thing I haven't pulled are the heads, so I don't think a rag is the problem. The car has great pressure while idling, but once I start moving about 40mph+ the oil pan will run dry.

mitchntx

iTrader: (14)

You changed the sending unit ... could it be a guage cluster problem?

You can buy a cheap mechanical oil pressure guage at any parts house ... usually for $20.

I would temporarily install one and see what you no **** have for oil pressure before I went any further.

Country Boy

iTrader: (24)

This might be stuipd, but are you SURE the pick up tube is in right? Thats the only reason for it messed up. Maybe something in the pickup tube? Theres nowhere in the motor for 6 qrts. of oil to hide????

robertbartsch

....is it possible that the pump is simmed so much that the oil is being pumped up top at such a high rate that not enough oil is left in the pan?

...70lbs is lots of pressure....

I know that six quarts is alot but one quart is in the filter and a few could be up in the heads ...would you have to suck ALL the oil out of the pan in order to get zero pressure???

...since you have torn everything else out....i would suspect that the simmed pump is too strong!....who made it? has this ever happened to their units before?

...what about a clogged oil pick-up tube; this would caUSE the pump to starve with no pressure right?


...are you sure there is no oil in the pan when the motor is running? totally weird!!!!

...this worries me since I am doing a head/cam swap and will replace the oil pump with an SLP shimmed unit....

robertbartsch

ONE OTHER THOUGHT ....YOU SAID YOU REPLACED THE PUSH RODS...

Doesn;t most of the oil that is pumped into the heads return into the block by dripping back through the pushrod holes?

Is it possible that the diameter of the replacement push rods you used is larger than stock and thus, it is now harder for the oil that is pumped into the heads to drain back down throught the pushrod holes?

...i would suspect that if the oil is in the heads under pressure that some would be pushed through the valve seals into the chambers...is this dude burning oil too?

strokedls1

iTrader: (1)

Oil comes up through the pushrods from the pump, and then drains back down into the valley. 70 psi sounds like a lot of pressure. I had about 60 with the stock pump on cold start if that is what your referring too. The only suggestions I can come up with is oil pressure switch is busted behind the intake, or check the plug in the rear of the block for leaks.

DaleMX

iTrader: (4)

Seems like the LS1 engine I bought for my Kit car had a low oil sensor. Is there a light on the dash for that?

felton316

I did replace the pushrods with some Thunder racing hardened one. They seem like the same size but, I'll mic them tomorrow to be for sure.

I was thinking maybe it could be the o-ring so I installed the pick-up tube to the pump while both were off the engine, then installed them as an assembly, so I know the o-ring was installed perfectly. While I had the pick-up tube off, I cleaned it out REAL good. When I have low to no oil pressure, the dipstick will be totally dry, so I am assuming the pan is sucked dry. If the tube was clogged, I should have the dipstick read 'full', be cause all the oil is not going anywhere, right? But if I turn the motor off for about 30 seconds, then start it again, pressure will be back.

The 70 psi is on cold starts with an ARE pump, when warmed, the pressure prolly falls around the 50-55psi area.

If I cant figure this out by the week-end, I put the ole stocker back on and see if the problem continues. But for now, I'm gonna pull the valve covers and push rods, and use a bore-o-scope to see if any thing is in there. Hopefully I won't have to pull the heads.
Thanks for all the ideas so far.... keep'em coming!

robertbartsch

...are you the same person who had this problem before....///????

...someone suggested that you may have left a rag in the motor when working on the top???...

...if not, then there is another guy with this same EXACT issue.

everyone was baffled as I remember...i suppose you could go back to a stock pump and use some thinner oil to see if it fixes the problem...weird...

...i do remeber someone suggesting that he check the oil level when the motor was running...this guy had no oil in the pan when the motor was running....when he shut off the oil would drain back and his pan was full???????

...dont; remember how it turned out...

I WOULD DO A BETTER POST WITH YOUR PROBLEM POSTED IN THE HEADER ....THIS SO MORE PEOPLE CAN SEE IT

pekkaz

I have similar type of thing going on after doing head work, oil pump, chain, cam, headers and intake. I didn't check the dip stick but the oil pressure went to zero and oil was pouring out of the throttle body, PCV and fresh air tube. Intake was a lake.

Me deepest fear is that blow by combined with the PCV pulling above prevents the oil draining back to the pan. Should do some testing but right now I'm installing LS6 valley cover and see if it helps. I'll also install a PCV valve other way around into the fresh air tube so the engine can not spit anything out from that direction and if there is any pressure build up that will only force the oil back down.

robertbartsch

Hey Peckie:
what oil pump are you running and what are the pressure readings?

Did you replace the pushrods with TR hardened rods?

...when your oil pressure goes to zero is there any oil in the pan when enginge is running?

WOW - this is an epidemic - two guys with the same strange oiling issue - totally wierd!

Q

iTrader: (18)

This is a very interesting thread because I'm also having oiling issues regarding a stock gm pump. Keep us posted on what you find.

Q

pekkaz

I re-used stock rods. The oil pump is stock 2001 LS-6 pump and readings were 40-45 psi at idle before I took an easy test drive resulting in zero pressure. I didn't check the oil level but just thought that the freaking o-ring failed but then I saw the oil coming out all over the place including the fresh air tube.

Let's see what ls-6 valley cover and a PCV valve in the fresh air tube will do. But it seems the other guy already has the cover.

Is it possible for the lifters to fail in a way that they pass major amounts of oil through ?