Fireball

iTrader: (21)

Unless I'm overlooking something obvious...the tool isn't that great to use with unmodified heads:

If you remove your valve and try to cut reliefs using your stock (or ported) head as a guide the tool will NOT allow the piston to come to TDC for the cut. THis is due to the fact that the cutter head is .250 inches thick and will stick down below the head deck surface. This didn't dawn on me when I cut reliefs and just lowered the piston slightly in the bore to accomodate the cutter.

since the cutter (and valve)is on an angle with respect to the piston, lowering the piston will move the cut to a different place on the piston. the intake valve clearance issue is when the piston is near TDC after the exhaust stroke.

In order to do it right (from what I see) you either need to have a head with the seat cut out so you can recess the tool and allow for cuts at TDC or modify the tool (on a lathe) to allow for it to fit into the seat. I am doing the latter (just cutting some off the back of the cutter to allow it to recess into the valve seat)

When in doubt, reclay after cutting. I just measured that I needed ~.020 more room and cut .020 off the piston and didn't remeasure...the result was 5 bent intake valves. The valves all hit just above where my flycuts were <img border="0" alt="[bang head]" title="" src="graemlins/gr_banghead.gif" />


<img border="0" alt="[angel]" title="" src="graemlins/gr_angel.gif" />

<small>[ April 07, 2003, 08:29 AM: Message edited by: Fireball ]</small>

LS1 Kyle

Damn! Sorry about that. I'm glad you posted on this though. I've been looking at getting the Isky tool and results from those who have used it.

Thanks for the heads up. Let us know how the modified tool comes out.

Thanks,
Kyle

Fastest 35th SE.

Damn that sucks. I hate doing alot of work for nothing and having to take it all off again. Makes you feel like you didn't accomplish anything.

JF WS6

Geez, what good is this flycutting tool if it sits below the deck surface?? Sounds like very poor design work to me. Thanks for giving everyone a heads up on the Isky tool.

robertbartsch

Thats very good to know!

Would the same thing happen if you used a larger diameter cutter - like TWO sizes bigger than the valve you are trying to relieve?

...Is it possible to bend valves when you re-measure the cuts or only if you start the motor?

Did you flycut while the block was in the car?

Thanks..

robertbartsch

...I don't suppose putting a few fat metal washers with a thickness of .250 in between the heads and the block would have helped????


....I assume the cutters did not come with directions...this STINKS!

Did the cutters score/scratch the old valve seats?

Sorry!

Fireball

iTrader: (21)

putting washers between the head/block will be the same as lowering the piston in geometry...will result in same problem

The cutter is nowhere near the valve seat and will remain that way once cut to my specs

Fireball

iTrader: (21)

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by robertbartsch:
<strong> Thats very good to know!

Would the same thing happen if you used a larger diameter cutter - like TWO sizes bigger than the valve you are trying to relieve?

...Is it possible to bend valves when you re-measure the cuts or only if you start the motor?

Did you flycut while the block was in the car?

Thanks.. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">flycut on an engine stand


starting the motor didn't cause it.. revving to ~5K plus caused it. I do use an oversize cutter (1 size bigger than valve size). 2sizes bigger would have resulted in the cutter sticking out yet further necessitating the piston to be lowered further...no help

Hitman#1

iTrader: (1)

How far does the cutter protrude from the bottom of the head? The reason I ask, is that when discussing this very tool with LG, he told me to bring the piston to TDC, set the head on the block, run the bolts in until snug, and rotate the cutter. He said to keep doing this until the head sat flush with the gasket/ block surface, and then check V/P clearance to see if any more needs to be removed. That technique seems like it would bypass the issue you had. What do you think?

LS1derfull

Judson from SAM used this cutter for his project car and he had 2.055" valves, i thiunk he even went to 2.08" eventually and said cutter worked fine. What size valves did you run Fireball? Was your cutter a 2.06"? We did Slowhawks pistons with 2.06" Tool and 2.02" valves and he has no problems. I know he missed a gear racing me too!
Result: no damage.

felton316

If you don't mind me asking, where can this tool be bought at? Right now I have the heads off, and I might try this....

Hawkn01

iTrader: (1)

One of the sponsers rents a head (with valve seats removed) and cutting tool for I think $90,when you return the head and tool you get some of your money back.I think it's TEA but not positive.

LS1derfull

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by felton316:
<strong> If you don't mind me asking, where can this tool be bought at? Right now I have the heads off, and I might try this.... </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Isky cams rents or sells the tools.Phone # is 323-770-0930

Slowhawk

iTrader: (12)

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by LS1derfull:
<strong> Judson from SAM used this cutter for his project car and he had 2.055" valves, i thiunk he even went to 2.08" eventually and said cutter worked fine. What size valves did you run Fireball? Was your cutter a 2.06"? We did Slowhawks pistons with 2.06" Tool and 2.02" valves and he has no problems. I know he missed a gear racing me too!
Result: no damage. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">That's me <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="gr_images/icons/wink.gif" /> My intake valves would of hit by now if they were cut in the wrong position. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="gr_stretch.gif" />

felton316

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> Isky cams rents or sells the tools.Phone # is 323-770-0930
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Thanks, I shall give them a call tomorrow. I'm just a little worried, since I'm about to install larger valves and running the 227/224 cam. Better safe than sorry....

Vents

iTrader: (9)

FB,

why wouldnt isky have notified you of this problem in advance and if not, shouldnt you be entitled for a re-embursment at least if not payment for you're damaged parts? do you think that the lifters pumped up that much at 5k as to bend valves? thats insane! almost like variable valve timing. crazyness...

<small>[ April 07, 2003, 11:39 PM: Message edited by: VentsWoker ]</small>

Fly By

Its not their fault in any way. They supply a tool. nothing more. Its not up to them to make it work on an LS1. Brian simply messed up, besides, how can you cut them, and then not put the head BACK on, and measure PTV <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" />

Fireball

iTrader: (21)

I'm runing 2.02 valves

since the valves are on an angle with respect to the heads...I'm not so sure that keeping the head loose then cutting then tightening down the heads then cutting, etc is great since it won't be cutting where you want to cut. as you tighten down the head, the cutter will cut untouched piston so eventually you will have the same problem as I encountered. besides there are no cutting tines on the side of the tool so it couldn't really account for the lateral motion across the piston as the head is lowered. Just playing around I tried the same thing by tightening down the head and raising the piston into the cutter...it just reaches a point that it binds (because it isn't designed to cut that way)

I'm not blaming anyone but myself...but the tool is definately not intended for use as a cutter on a stock head...need to have the seat cut out to provide room for the cutter. This is what TEA provides if you rent from them from what I read <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="gr_images/icons/wink.gif" />

Zeta

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by felton316:
<strong> If you don't mind me asking, where can this tool be bought at? Right now I have the heads off, and I might try this.... </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I have a new and unused one. Intake only, one size over stock sized valves.

Fireball

iTrader: (21)

Sweet...my tool has been successfully cut down to allow clearance for the piston to come up to TDC.

Shop said it was a PITA to do since its a very hard tool steel <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

Oh well...I double check to see how it works now then I'll replace the pistons with ones I bought from valvegod <img border="0" alt="[worship]" title="" src="graemlins/gr_hail.gif" />