Ordered a Comp Cam...have questions about ICL
04-10-2003, 10:02 PM
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Ordered a Comp Cam...have questions about ICL I ordered a 226/224 .570/.563 112 lsa Comp Cam. On my cam card, it says:
Duration At:
.006 Tappet Lift Intake 279 Exhaust 277
Valve timing... Open Close
at .050 INT: 1 BTDC 45 ABDC
EXH: 44 BBDC 0 ATDC
These specs are for cam installed at 112 intake center line
Duration at .050 Intake 226 Exhaust 224
Lobe lift .3340 .3310
Lobe Separation 112.0
My question is...how much advance is in my cam? Is it 2 degrees or 4 degrees? When I asked speed inc (before the cam came in), they said that most likely it would be 2 degrees andvance. This would make my ICL 110 degrees, correct? Then what does the part that I put in bold mean? Does it mean that my ICL is 112 degrees?
Someone please shed some light.
Thanks
Duration At:
.006 Tappet Lift Intake 279 Exhaust 277
Valve timing... Open Close
at .050 INT: 1 BTDC 45 ABDC
EXH: 44 BBDC 0 ATDC
These specs are for cam installed at 112 intake center line
Duration at .050 Intake 226 Exhaust 224
Lobe lift .3340 .3310
Lobe Separation 112.0
My question is...how much advance is in my cam? Is it 2 degrees or 4 degrees? When I asked speed inc (before the cam came in), they said that most likely it would be 2 degrees andvance. This would make my ICL 110 degrees, correct? Then what does the part that I put in bold mean? Does it mean that my ICL is 112 degrees?
Someone please shed some light.
Thanks
04-10-2003, 10:39 PM
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Re: Ordered a Comp Cam...have questions about ICL I would think it is stright up could be wrong. i just looked at my cam card and i have a 112lsa but mine says these spec are for cam installed at 108 intake center line. so i think mine has a 4 degree advance ground in.
04-11-2003, 10:42 AM
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Re: Ordered a Comp Cam...have questions about ICL TTT, if it had 2 degrees advance ground into it, then the ICL would be 110 right? I'm getting a little worried now.
04-11-2003, 11:37 AM
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Re: Ordered a Comp Cam...have questions about ICL The cam is on a 112icl which means you have 0 degrees advance ground in. The card that comes with it will tell you because it will say this is for a cam installed at xxx icl which will be determined by how much advance is ground into the cam as comp is betting on you installing it straight up dot to dot.
04-11-2003, 01:10 PM
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Re: Ordered a Comp Cam...have questions about ICL subract the LSA from the ILC to see how much advance is ground into the cam.
114LSA - 110ILC = 4 degrees advance that is already ground into the cam.
assuming you put the cam in dot to dot.
114LSA - 110ILC = 4 degrees advance that is already ground into the cam.
assuming you put the cam in dot to dot.
04-11-2003, 08:58 PM
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Re: Ordered a Comp Cam...have questions about ICL So my cam has no advance ground into it. I thought that comp cams usually ground 4 degrees advance? Yeah, it was installed dot to dot. Should I have had some advance put in?
<small>[ April 11, 2003, 08:59 PM: Message edited by: ChiTownSS ]</small>
<small>[ April 11, 2003, 08:59 PM: Message edited by: ChiTownSS ]</small>
04-11-2003, 09:47 PM
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Re: Ordered a Comp Cam...have questions about ICL With zero advance in the cam your peak hp will be higher in the rpm range for a given cam. If you have a loose enough stall so as it brake stalls 500 rpm below peak torque then you don't need advance. Also you will need have your shift points 200-400 above peak hp. If your rpm limiter is set lower and you can't reach that rpm then you need to advance the cam for max et.
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04-12-2003, 12:32 AM
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Re: Ordered a Comp Cam...have questions about ICL I have an M6, but from what I have read from Jason at Thunder Racing, the 227/224 cam peaks at 6700 rpms. Because I have 0 degrees advanced, does it mean for max E.T. that I would have to shift at 7,000 rpms??? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="gr_eek2.gif" /> I sure the hell hope not!
04-12-2003, 01:05 AM
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Re: Ordered a Comp Cam...have questions about ICL </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by ChiTownSS:
<strong> I have an M6, but from what I have read from Jason at Thunder Racing, the 227/224 cam peaks at 6700 rpms. Because I have 0 degrees advanced, does it mean for max E.T. that I would have to shift at 7,000 rpms??? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="gr_eek2.gif" /> I sure the hell hope not! </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Yep, if your peak hp is 6700 then best et would be around 7000 rpm shifts assuming your intake and exhaust are freeing flowing enough for your engine to go that high.
Four degrees of advance would do wonders for you. You would certainly 60' better unless you have the gearing and clutch to launch at a very high rpm. With a standard tranny you don't want your rpm to fall below peak torque at launch.
<strong> I have an M6, but from what I have read from Jason at Thunder Racing, the 227/224 cam peaks at 6700 rpms. Because I have 0 degrees advanced, does it mean for max E.T. that I would have to shift at 7,000 rpms??? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="gr_eek2.gif" /> I sure the hell hope not! </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Yep, if your peak hp is 6700 then best et would be around 7000 rpm shifts assuming your intake and exhaust are freeing flowing enough for your engine to go that high.
Four degrees of advance would do wonders for you. You would certainly 60' better unless you have the gearing and clutch to launch at a very high rpm. With a standard tranny you don't want your rpm to fall below peak torque at launch.
04-12-2003, 03:23 PM
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Re: Ordered a Comp Cam...have questions about ICL TTT, I can still get an adjustable timing chain and degree some advance into the cam right? Do I have to physically remove the cam again, or just the timing chain?
04-13-2003, 12:07 AM
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Re: Ordered a Comp Cam...have questions about ICL I definitely do not want to spin my motor past 6700 rpms. I am pretty upset right now. When I called Speed Inc, they said that most cams come with 2 degrees advance and when I asked on the boards here, I was told 4 degrees advance. So I just didn't mention anything when I ordered the cam. Now I have 0 advance <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="gr_sad.gif" /> . I can still advance it with an adjustable timing chain right?
04-13-2003, 07:23 AM
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Re: Ordered a Comp Cam...have questions about ICL </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by ChiTownSS:
<strong> I definitely do not want to spin my motor past 6700 rpms. I am pretty upset right now. When I called Speed Inc, they said that most cams come with 2 degrees advance and when I asked on the boards here, I was told 4 degrees advance. So I just didn't mention anything when I ordered the cam. Now I have 0 advance <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="gr_sad.gif" /> . I can still advance it with an adjustable timing chain right? </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Speed Inc. did you a disservice if they didn't ask you what rpm you were shooting for along with all your other engine criteria. I don't know your conversation with them but from what you say it sounds like they owe you an adjustable timing chain.
Yes, an adjustible timing chain will give the the same advance as having advance ground into the cam. I believe a 108 ICL would give you peak hp around 6000-6200 rpm on your 112 LSA. That would require about 6 degrees of advance. What rpm are you shooting for?
As GranySShifting said, you do not have to remove the cam to intall the chain. You do have to drop the oil pan about 1/2" to get the oil pump out. There are posts explaining more on that.
<small>[ April 13, 2003, 07:26 AM: Message edited by: Larry ]</small>
<strong> I definitely do not want to spin my motor past 6700 rpms. I am pretty upset right now. When I called Speed Inc, they said that most cams come with 2 degrees advance and when I asked on the boards here, I was told 4 degrees advance. So I just didn't mention anything when I ordered the cam. Now I have 0 advance <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="gr_sad.gif" /> . I can still advance it with an adjustable timing chain right? </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Speed Inc. did you a disservice if they didn't ask you what rpm you were shooting for along with all your other engine criteria. I don't know your conversation with them but from what you say it sounds like they owe you an adjustable timing chain.
Yes, an adjustible timing chain will give the the same advance as having advance ground into the cam. I believe a 108 ICL would give you peak hp around 6000-6200 rpm on your 112 LSA. That would require about 6 degrees of advance. What rpm are you shooting for?
As GranySShifting said, you do not have to remove the cam to intall the chain. You do have to drop the oil pan about 1/2" to get the oil pump out. There are posts explaining more on that.
<small>[ April 13, 2003, 07:26 AM: Message edited by: Larry ]</small>
04-13-2003, 02:13 PM
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Re: Ordered a Comp Cam...have questions about ICL " Speed Inc. did you a disservice if they didn't ask you what rpm you were shooting for along with all your other engine criteria."
I agree with you here. Not to bash Speed Inc at all, because they did a great install, at a great price, and within' an acceptable time frame. But they did not discuss anything regarding advance in my cam. I just ASSUMED, which puts myself at fault as well, that there would be some advance in the cam from what someone over there told me over the phone and from what answers I received when asking that question on this forum. I would rather shift around 6500 rpms, no higher. How much should I degree the cam and which timing set should I use.
Thanks.
I agree with you here. Not to bash Speed Inc at all, because they did a great install, at a great price, and within' an acceptable time frame. But they did not discuss anything regarding advance in my cam. I just ASSUMED, which puts myself at fault as well, that there would be some advance in the cam from what someone over there told me over the phone and from what answers I received when asking that question on this forum. I would rather shift around 6500 rpms, no higher. How much should I degree the cam and which timing set should I use.
Thanks.
04-13-2003, 06:51 PM
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Re: Ordered a Comp Cam...have questions about ICL Yeah, I was pretty nervous/upset about the fact that I don't have any advance in my cam. But I was going to buy an adjustable/heavy - duty timing chain anyway, so I'll just put some advance in it. What timing chain should I go with? I need one that will work well, without any issues, with ASP pullies.
04-13-2003, 09:25 PM
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Re: Ordered a Comp Cam...have questions about ICL ok i just looked at my cam card from my comp cam
i was told when i bought it it had 4 degrees ground in it (Speed Inc as well)
well its a 112 LSA cam and it says on the card Specs are for cam installed at 112 ICL
the thing is my cam still peaks at like 6100-6200
it doesnt look at all like the powerband needs to be shifted
take a look
<img src="http://images.cardomain.com/member_img_a/257000-257999/257263_32_full.jpg" alt=" - " />
<small>[ April 13, 2003, 09:26 PM: Message edited by: Tally TransAm ]</small>
i was told when i bought it it had 4 degrees ground in it (Speed Inc as well)
well its a 112 LSA cam and it says on the card Specs are for cam installed at 112 ICL
the thing is my cam still peaks at like 6100-6200
it doesnt look at all like the powerband needs to be shifted
take a look
<img src="http://images.cardomain.com/member_img_a/257000-257999/257263_32_full.jpg" alt=" - " />
<small>[ April 13, 2003, 09:26 PM: Message edited by: Tally TransAm ]</small>
04-13-2003, 10:45 PM
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Re: Ordered a Comp Cam...have questions about ICL </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by Tally TransAm:
<strong> ok i just looked at my cam card from my comp cam
i was told when i bought it it had 4 degrees ground in it (Speed Inc as well)
well its a 112 LSA cam and it says on the card Specs are for cam installed at 112 ICL
the thing is my cam still peaks at like 6100-6200
it doesnt look at all like the powerband needs to be shifted
take a look
<img src="http://images.cardomain.com/member_img_a/257000-257999/257263_32_full.jpg" alt=" - " /> </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">So does that mean that I should only put in 2 degrees of advance to get it to peak around 6500 rpms?
Thanks for the graph, by the way.
<strong> ok i just looked at my cam card from my comp cam
i was told when i bought it it had 4 degrees ground in it (Speed Inc as well)
well its a 112 LSA cam and it says on the card Specs are for cam installed at 112 ICL
the thing is my cam still peaks at like 6100-6200
it doesnt look at all like the powerband needs to be shifted
take a look
<img src="http://images.cardomain.com/member_img_a/257000-257999/257263_32_full.jpg" alt=" - " /> </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">So does that mean that I should only put in 2 degrees of advance to get it to peak around 6500 rpms?
Thanks for the graph, by the way.
04-13-2003, 10:54 PM
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Re: Ordered a Comp Cam...have questions about ICL Well you guys made me pull out my comp cam card...............
i ordered a 222/224/566/568/112 lsa
on the card it says,,,
for cam installed at 110 intake center line.
so i guess i have 2 deg. advance......
getting tuned this week...
i ordered a 222/224/566/568/112 lsa
on the card it says,,,
for cam installed at 110 intake center line.
so i guess i have 2 deg. advance......
getting tuned this week...
04-13-2003, 11:08 PM
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Re: Ordered a Comp Cam...have questions about ICL </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by ChiTownSS:
<strong> I have an M6, but from what I have read from Jason at Thunder Racing, the 227/224 cam peaks at 6700 rpms. Because I have 0 degrees advanced, does it mean for max E.T. that I would have to shift at 7,000 rpms??? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="gr_eek2.gif" /> I sure the hell hope not! </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">The TR227/224 peaks ~6300 and needs to be SHIFTED at ~6700.
The cam you have should peak around the same rpm.
Jason
<strong> I have an M6, but from what I have read from Jason at Thunder Racing, the 227/224 cam peaks at 6700 rpms. Because I have 0 degrees advanced, does it mean for max E.T. that I would have to shift at 7,000 rpms??? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="gr_eek2.gif" /> I sure the hell hope not! </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">The TR227/224 peaks ~6300 and needs to be SHIFTED at ~6700.
The cam you have should peak around the same rpm.
Jason