just installed cam/springs. tips/hints/info inside! Promised post!
12-30-2004, 01:59 PM
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just installed cam/springs. tips/hints/info inside! Promised post! ***Note, this thread was originally started December of 2004. There is great advice and discussion throughout the thread
I used this guide for my swap.
http://www.ls1howto.com/index.php?article=23
With no prior experience and no experienced help I managed to successfully swap the cam, springs, seats, retainers, pushrods, timing chain, and oil pump almost entirely by myself. 2+ years later everything is still going strong.***
The post I promised. First, the results thus far. I recently self installed the TSP MS3 (237/242 .603/.609 113), PRC dual spring kits, CM pushrods, ported LS6 oil pump, and rollmaster double roller timing chain. I started it up for the first time about an hour ago. It fired and did NOT want to idle. I had to restart it several times and work with it to get it to idle but once it did it held. I even backed it out of the garage and idled around the driveway and it was fine. Tuning at speed inc next friday (1/7). When I was trying to get it to idle a couple cans of vegetables from the shelves in our garage fell off.
It hit ~40+ psi of oil pressure under 2k rpm and held ~30 at hot idle.
My tips/hints/observations
Whenever possible, DO NOT USE 12 POINT SOCKETs. Always opt for six point sockets. If you havn't already learned this the hard way take it from me.
1. Teardown: To break the crank bolt loose I suggest two things. One, don't even attempt to use a 24mm socket. Try a deep well, six point, 15/16" and unless it won't go don't use the 24mm. I accidentally tried a 12pt 24mm and darn near rounded it completely off. Two, heat the head of the bolt with a small torch. That made all the difference in the world. (when helping someone else swap cams the bolt came out rather easily with no heat) Get a longer crank bolt to remove the pulley. The water pump may feel on there very tight, but so long as 5/6 bolts are removed and the on stuck behind a pulley is disconnected put something like a big **** wrench between the pump and teh block and give it a good tug to break it free.
2. Cam/oil pump/timing chain: I used the 5/16" dowel rods with one side sanded down to try and catch falling lifters. They slid right in with no resistance, after having spun the cam to get the lifters up. When you loosen oil pan bolts don't listen to the LS1howto.com guide alone it doesn't have everything. There are FOURTEEN bolts to the oil pan, not 8-10. There are five shorter ones (per side) running the perimeter of the pan, two 13 mm drive bolts that run horizontally from the trans into the oil pan, and two long ones (DON'T overtorque these) on the back/bottom of the pan. The oil pump pickup tube bolt is a bit of a pain. I recommend that you stick something behind where you are working in the oil pan to catch it in case you drop it. I folded over some aluminum foil and molded it into shape. Dropped the bolt 3-4 times and it caught it (numb fingers from winter weather made it difficult) Whenever possible, leave a rag stuffed in the bottom of the pan (eg under and sides of oil pump) so things don't fall into there. I also put one up on top of the timing chain so I wouldn't randomly drop something into the oil pan as that would not be fun to get out.
3. Valvespring swap: First off, get a good valvespring tool. I started trying to use the craftsman model you can get a sears, etc (loaner from autozone) but I do NOT recommend doing an entire swap with it. After a couple hours of using it I called up Thunder Racing and had them overnight me one of the crane cams tools that does two springs at once. I was able to do a cylinder (both springs) in 15-20 mins with it. One side of the tool perfectly centered the stock retainers while the other did the same to my larger dia retainers. I found that keeping the retainer centered around the stem is what you HAVE to do if you don't want to fight with the keepers/locks/keys all day long. I also lined the engine bay with towels to try and catch them when they fell or were launched by the springs on removal.
I did not use compressed air, simply TDC method. The valves couldn't go very far and I could either use the pen magnet to pull up the valve stem or grab it and pull it up. I highly advice you to buy extra keepers/locks/keys from the dealer when you get the NEW oil pump pickup tube O-ring. I had to go out yesterday when i totally lost a key and I got five at $0.80 each so now I have four extras. You don't need a deep well socket (10-12mm) to seat the vavle seals as ls1howto says. I used a 12 mm, 3/8" drive, standard socket and it worked okay.
4. Reassembly: To get the pulley on I first tried baking it for 20 mins at 225*. It didn't go anywhere. Now remember, I stupidly never found a new LONGER crank bolt or a threaded rod/nut so I had to get it seated somehow or quit at this time. Instead busted out the small torch once again, heated the inside of the pulley up nice and warm/hot and it slid all the way onto the crank snout. When stretching the NEW bolt into place I did not get anywhere near 140*. Partially becasue I was putting force on it while my dad stuck a screwdriver into the flywheel and it got started that way. Also, we got it torqued down to the max my wrench can go to (250 lb-feet
) so I figure it's in there pretty good.
A few things for people who want to attemp a cam/spring swap themselves:
Get the right tools!!! Valve spring tool and small torch come to mind as biggies, as well as a 10mm gear wrench if you don't have one. Every LS1 owner should own a 10mm gear wrench.
Get somebody that can help you. Shouldn't need it all the time but it comes in very handy at some points to have an extra set of hands.
Give yourself plenty of time to complete. I started ten days ago and worked on and off around the holidays. I wouldn't have taken as long but it was very cold in the garage (barely above freezing most days). It definately took longer than LS1howto.com times suggest for the first two steps, but I did manage springs and reassembly in one long day yesterday (still longer than it says for sure though). Credit the torch and spring tool here as much as anything.
That is all that I remember ATM. There might be more, feel free to ask on anything about the swap or for clarification of what I typed, I didn't proofread it yet.
April 2007 Edit:
Here is a short, low quality video taken last year with my digital camera:
I used this guide for my swap.
http://www.ls1howto.com/index.php?article=23
With no prior experience and no experienced help I managed to successfully swap the cam, springs, seats, retainers, pushrods, timing chain, and oil pump almost entirely by myself. 2+ years later everything is still going strong.***
The post I promised. First, the results thus far. I recently self installed the TSP MS3 (237/242 .603/.609 113), PRC dual spring kits, CM pushrods, ported LS6 oil pump, and rollmaster double roller timing chain. I started it up for the first time about an hour ago. It fired and did NOT want to idle. I had to restart it several times and work with it to get it to idle but once it did it held. I even backed it out of the garage and idled around the driveway and it was fine. Tuning at speed inc next friday (1/7). When I was trying to get it to idle a couple cans of vegetables from the shelves in our garage fell off.
It hit ~40+ psi of oil pressure under 2k rpm and held ~30 at hot idle. My tips/hints/observations
Whenever possible, DO NOT USE 12 POINT SOCKETs. Always opt for six point sockets. If you havn't already learned this the hard way take it from me.
1. Teardown: To break the crank bolt loose I suggest two things. One, don't even attempt to use a 24mm socket. Try a deep well, six point, 15/16" and unless it won't go don't use the 24mm. I accidentally tried a 12pt 24mm and darn near rounded it completely off. Two, heat the head of the bolt with a small torch. That made all the difference in the world. (when helping someone else swap cams the bolt came out rather easily with no heat) Get a longer crank bolt to remove the pulley. The water pump may feel on there very tight, but so long as 5/6 bolts are removed and the on stuck behind a pulley is disconnected put something like a big **** wrench between the pump and teh block and give it a good tug to break it free.
2. Cam/oil pump/timing chain: I used the 5/16" dowel rods with one side sanded down to try and catch falling lifters. They slid right in with no resistance, after having spun the cam to get the lifters up. When you loosen oil pan bolts don't listen to the LS1howto.com guide alone it doesn't have everything. There are FOURTEEN bolts to the oil pan, not 8-10. There are five shorter ones (per side) running the perimeter of the pan, two 13 mm drive bolts that run horizontally from the trans into the oil pan, and two long ones (DON'T overtorque these) on the back/bottom of the pan. The oil pump pickup tube bolt is a bit of a pain. I recommend that you stick something behind where you are working in the oil pan to catch it in case you drop it. I folded over some aluminum foil and molded it into shape. Dropped the bolt 3-4 times and it caught it (numb fingers from winter weather made it difficult) Whenever possible, leave a rag stuffed in the bottom of the pan (eg under and sides of oil pump) so things don't fall into there. I also put one up on top of the timing chain so I wouldn't randomly drop something into the oil pan as that would not be fun to get out.
3. Valvespring swap: First off, get a good valvespring tool. I started trying to use the craftsman model you can get a sears, etc (loaner from autozone) but I do NOT recommend doing an entire swap with it. After a couple hours of using it I called up Thunder Racing and had them overnight me one of the crane cams tools that does two springs at once. I was able to do a cylinder (both springs) in 15-20 mins with it. One side of the tool perfectly centered the stock retainers while the other did the same to my larger dia retainers. I found that keeping the retainer centered around the stem is what you HAVE to do if you don't want to fight with the keepers/locks/keys all day long. I also lined the engine bay with towels to try and catch them when they fell or were launched by the springs on removal.
I did not use compressed air, simply TDC method. The valves couldn't go very far and I could either use the pen magnet to pull up the valve stem or grab it and pull it up. I highly advice you to buy extra keepers/locks/keys from the dealer when you get the NEW oil pump pickup tube O-ring. I had to go out yesterday when i totally lost a key and I got five at $0.80 each so now I have four extras. You don't need a deep well socket (10-12mm) to seat the vavle seals as ls1howto says. I used a 12 mm, 3/8" drive, standard socket and it worked okay.
4. Reassembly: To get the pulley on I first tried baking it for 20 mins at 225*. It didn't go anywhere. Now remember, I stupidly never found a new LONGER crank bolt or a threaded rod/nut so I had to get it seated somehow or quit at this time. Instead busted out the small torch once again, heated the inside of the pulley up nice and warm/hot and it slid all the way onto the crank snout. When stretching the NEW bolt into place I did not get anywhere near 140*. Partially becasue I was putting force on it while my dad stuck a screwdriver into the flywheel and it got started that way. Also, we got it torqued down to the max my wrench can go to (250 lb-feet
) so I figure it's in there pretty good. A few things for people who want to attemp a cam/spring swap themselves:
Get the right tools!!! Valve spring tool and small torch come to mind as biggies, as well as a 10mm gear wrench if you don't have one. Every LS1 owner should own a 10mm gear wrench.
Get somebody that can help you. Shouldn't need it all the time but it comes in very handy at some points to have an extra set of hands.
Give yourself plenty of time to complete. I started ten days ago and worked on and off around the holidays. I wouldn't have taken as long but it was very cold in the garage (barely above freezing most days). It definately took longer than LS1howto.com times suggest for the first two steps, but I did manage springs and reassembly in one long day yesterday (still longer than it says for sure though). Credit the torch and spring tool here as much as anything.
That is all that I remember ATM. There might be more, feel free to ask on anything about the swap or for clarification of what I typed, I didn't proofread it yet.
April 2007 Edit:
Here is a short, low quality video taken last year with my digital camera:
Last edited by blkZ28spt; 04-14-2007 at 12:59 PM.
12-30-2004, 03:45 PM
#2
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Congratulations on your install! I just got done with mine over the holidays and it took me a good 3 days to complete. It was a lot more work than I expected. Just a few comments from my experience.
1. I used a 15/16" regular 6 point socket and a breaker bar to loosen the pulley bolt. Since I have an M6, I just put it in gear to lock the engine from moving.
2. I used the Russian Roulette method and it work perfect to remove and replace the cam. I originally bought metal rods but they would not go in all the way and I got pissed so I chucked them and took a chance. I just made sure that I spun the cam each way hard and quick.
Yeah, there are more than 8-10 bolts for the oil pan! I screwed around with lowering the pan for an hour! Until I read the Haynes Manual and realized there are two bolts (13mm and 17mm) going through the tranny into the oil pan that I needed to remove before it would drop.
I stuffed a rag into the oil pan and used needle nose pliers to grab the oil pump pickup tube bolt so it would not drop. That worked great! Did not drop it once.
3. I used the Larry tool and an air ratchet. Made it an easy swap. The first valve spring lock that I removed shot off at my face! So I decided to hold a magnet close to the lock and depressed the spring til the locks came off and stuck to the magnet. I also used the TDC method.
I did not purchase any extra locks and I was lucky to not need any.
4. I went to the hardware store and bought a 16mm (2.0 pitch) x 130 mm bolt to put my pulley on. I also put the pulley in the oven and it did not help one bit. If it wasn't for the longer bolt, then I would have never gotten the damn thing on!!!! I torqued the bolt as much as I could with the breaker bar then put the new crank bolt on and tightened it to approximately 40 ft-lbs then 120 degrees more (couldn't get it to go anymore). I used Lock Thread on the bolt.
Nice write up. I too agree that the 10 mm Gear Wrench is a must have tool for these cars. Like you stated, give yourself plenty of time and make sure you have a helper and an extra car.
1. I used a 15/16" regular 6 point socket and a breaker bar to loosen the pulley bolt. Since I have an M6, I just put it in gear to lock the engine from moving.
2. I used the Russian Roulette method and it work perfect to remove and replace the cam. I originally bought metal rods but they would not go in all the way and I got pissed so I chucked them and took a chance. I just made sure that I spun the cam each way hard and quick.
Yeah, there are more than 8-10 bolts for the oil pan! I screwed around with lowering the pan for an hour! Until I read the Haynes Manual and realized there are two bolts (13mm and 17mm) going through the tranny into the oil pan that I needed to remove before it would drop.
I stuffed a rag into the oil pan and used needle nose pliers to grab the oil pump pickup tube bolt so it would not drop. That worked great! Did not drop it once.
3. I used the Larry tool and an air ratchet. Made it an easy swap. The first valve spring lock that I removed shot off at my face! So I decided to hold a magnet close to the lock and depressed the spring til the locks came off and stuck to the magnet. I also used the TDC method.
I did not purchase any extra locks and I was lucky to not need any.
4. I went to the hardware store and bought a 16mm (2.0 pitch) x 130 mm bolt to put my pulley on. I also put the pulley in the oven and it did not help one bit. If it wasn't for the longer bolt, then I would have never gotten the damn thing on!!!! I torqued the bolt as much as I could with the breaker bar then put the new crank bolt on and tightened it to approximately 40 ft-lbs then 120 degrees more (couldn't get it to go anymore). I used Lock Thread on the bolt.
Nice write up. I too agree that the 10 mm Gear Wrench is a must have tool for these cars. Like you stated, give yourself plenty of time and make sure you have a helper and an extra car.
12-30-2004, 05:46 PM
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The lifters would just not stay up during my cam swap. We ended up using 5/16 brake line on both sides, with the drivers side slightly compressed with a hammer. This worked great. Just make sure it is 100% straight.
12-30-2004, 08:08 PM
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Aren't torches great? After dicking around with a propane torch thinking I was going to actually -do- something with it (stupid for someone who used to weld for a living) I got access to the proper equipment.(Oxy/Acet w/ a rosebud tip- can pre-heat and put the balancer in a box of lime to maintain temperature, plus helps insure lack of distortion because the temp is equalized).
Great write up!
Great write up!
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12-30-2004, 10:41 PM
#9
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Originally Posted by 2000WS6Vert
What is a 10 mm Gear Wrench?
I'm planning on doing a cam/spring swap over the summer.
I'm planning on doing a cam/spring swap over the summer.
My car idles like a stock car now. I drove it to autozone and back on it's second "heat cycle" (after letting it sit for 5.5 hours from first startup) and the guy at the counter was amazed that my newer car sounded like that. I drilled the TB out to 3/16" after it had such a hard time at first and it didn't die on the 5 mile round trip, just some stumbles.
12-31-2004, 10:00 AM
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Well guys, I just finished mine yesterday. 
TR224, Patriots, Dual chain and Oil pump. I to was having a problem with the idle so I adjusted the idle screw and drilled out my TB. Seems to be ok but we are going to tune it today with HP tuner. It is a pretty straight forward install as long as you have the proper tools and some knowledgable people to help you out. 
As far as the rod method for doing the cam swap. One of my buddies ground down the rod that goes into the pass. side and they both slipped right in. The only issue we had was forgetting to put the can retaining plate back at first. 
Good thing one of the guys saw it, and we got it in. By the way the car sounds
TR224, Patriots, Dual chain and Oil pump. I to was having a problem with the idle so I adjusted the idle screw and drilled out my TB. Seems to be ok but we are going to tune it today with HP tuner. It is a pretty straight forward install as long as you have the proper tools and some knowledgable people to help you out. As far as the rod method for doing the cam swap. One of my buddies ground down the rod that goes into the pass. side and they both slipped right in. The only issue we had was forgetting to put the can retaining plate back at first. Good thing one of the guys saw it, and we got it in. By the way the car sounds
12-31-2004, 10:15 AM
#12
Two suggestions: Use a chain wrench (used by plumbers on cast iron pipe) to keep the pulley from turning while removing the crank bolt. Then use a LARGE allen head cap screw for your puller rod to buck up against as your removing the pulley. You should put a couple of big flat washers under the head of the allen head cap screw. The flat washer ID should be just slightly larger than the diameter of the allen head cap screw you are using and the OD should be a little bit smaller than the OD of the crankshaft. The puller rod ceners itself right in the middle of the allen head cap screw as you tighten down on the puller. If you use a bolt or something like it the puller rod has a tendancy to walk around as you tighten the puller rod down. The cap screw works really well if you can find a BIG one somewhere.
Last edited by eallanboggs; 01-01-2005 at 07:10 AM.
12-31-2004, 05:14 PM
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I thought you were suppose to cool or refrigerate the dampener the night before you reinstall it. This is to constrict or shrink the metal molecules so it will just slide on. Heating would expand and make the dampener harder to install. Just my observation. Have not done a cam install yet but very soon. Thanks for the great info.
12-31-2004, 07:07 PM
#16
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It all depends on the outside temp of the crank snout.If it is cold then heating the pulley will help. But if the car is in a heated space and you only heat the pulley so much it is worthless.Cold snout+ heated pulley and lubrication, it will slide right on.
12-31-2004, 08:17 PM
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I just rented a three jaw/arm pulley puller from autozone to remove the pulley. Heating the pulley REALLY made putting it on easy. THe pulley expands just enough to slide right over the crank snout.
12-31-2004, 10:26 PM
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I've never done a cam before, would anyone happen to have a pic of what the crank snout looks like? I'm having trouble figuring out what you guys are talking about.
01-01-2005, 02:35 AM
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Nice writeup. I second the gear wrench. I was thinking of picking up another 10 today after I misplaced it and spent an hour looking. I am in the middle right now and I am having trouble with the oil pan. The 14 bolt information is very useful an I will use that tomorrow.
I'd also like to add ....
Radiator disassembly. In addition to remove the the 4 coolant hoses I had to remove the other end of the big one in the front that goes to the radiator because there were oil lines that go to a cylinder in the middle of it. Anyone else notice this?
Stock Camshaft removal. I had to disassemble the AC condensor/radiator (even thought the howto says to keep it in the car) from the plastic shroud and lower it to the floor to have enough space to get the cam out/in
I'd also like to add ....
Radiator disassembly. In addition to remove the the 4 coolant hoses I had to remove the other end of the big one in the front that goes to the radiator because there were oil lines that go to a cylinder in the middle of it. Anyone else notice this?
Stock Camshaft removal. I had to disassemble the AC condensor/radiator (even thought the howto says to keep it in the car) from the plastic shroud and lower it to the floor to have enough space to get the cam out/in