For all of you w/rod bolt ?s come inside. Rod bolts 101, numerous threads summarized!
01-20-2005, 05:52 PM
#1
For all of you w/rod bolt ?s come inside. Rod bolts 101, numerous threads summarized! I know this topic has been covered many times before, yet I still see a lot of people asking about it. I figured that I would gather up all the information throughout all the threads and posts that have been made and summarize it all. I personally don't have any experience with this subject, so all the info I'm putting up is from other's experience and/or knowledge.
ARP Pro-Series LS1 "Cracked Rod" Connecting Rod Bolts $89.24
ARP High-Performance LS1 "Cracked Rod" Connecting Rod Bolts $73.49
I didn't really find too much on the ARP high performance rod bolts, but there are some out there that are using them. As far as the pro series go, they are longer and I believe slightly heavier. The extra length and weight could cause/contributes to an imbalance. Since the material is stronger, it has more clamping force. However, it's not necessarily its strength, its the fact that they require a higher torque spec to obtain the proper stretch. They say you setup your rod bolts to stretch, not necessarily a specific torque value. ARP states that the desired stretch is .0055". Both methods will work, but the stretch method is more accurate.
On the Katech rod bolts, some have claimed that they are the same length, the same weight, and that Katech doesn't require any resizing as ARP does. The Katech rod bolts were designed around the ASA engine program and deal with GM on a daily basis. The bolts are directly made by Katech, they are made by a company out of California called A-1 Technology. They are a large fastener company hired by GM to make the ASA rod bolts. A-1 makes a lot of GM bolts they use in the motors.
The rod bolts thread into the cracked cap instead of going through the cap and using a nut like the old small block chevys. Resizing was a must back then. The LSX rods are made from powdered metal technology and are formed in one piece. They must be cracked to create the cap.
A lot of people have gotten away with replacing just the rod bolts. Some feel that it isnt necessary, some do. Those who wanted to take it further and check for clearances, distortion, out of round, etc. have ran into issues. Some, not all. So is it possible to run into problems? Yes. Is your motor going to run into problems? Who knows. Everyone's motor is different. Is it a possibility that you will get away with it? Certainly. If you feel confident enough that you have properly installed the new rod bolts and wish not to check for clearances, its your call. In most people's views, do it right and check for clearance, distortion, out of roundness, etc. Its all up to you. From what I can conclude, if you wanted to have a better chance of not screwing anything up and chancing not resizing, to go with the Katech because they are so similar if not exact in size and weight. Even some that have gone with the ARPs have said that if they had to do it again, they would go with the Katechs. I would rather spend the extra money and feel more comfortable about the swap.
What has been recommended strongly when installing the new rod bolts, is to do them one at a time. Try not to remove the cap because it has already seated itself. Be sure to torque them down to spec, loosen them, then repeat 3 to 5 times to obtain the correct stretch. Use motor oil or moly lube on the threads and the face of the head. Some have even recommended dipping the entire bolt in motor oil. Cleaning the threads in the cap would be a good idea, but not necessary.
The part number on the Katechs are A2236. I found that in a search. The only sponsor that came up in a search that sells them is TPIS. I'll go through the list to see who sells them. I didnt even see them on TPIS's website. Might have to call around or make a new thread in the Sponsor Section.
My question is, how much are the factory rod bolts torqued down? The ARPs seem to be 40-45 ft. lbs. I personally dont know, but those are the 2 numbers Ive seen. If you replace the rod bolt with a stronger one, its the same length, same weight, and you torque it down similar to the stock one, it shouldnt have any problems. A longer bolt, heavier bolt, and more torque than a stock bolt could be a nightmare. If all things were equal except strength, then I cant see anything going wrong.
Another question, the rod bolts thread into the cap, do the rod bolts have a shank on it? If so, are the new bolts (Katech or ARP) have a bigger shank than the stockers? I ask that because if it does, when installing them, I would think they would want to stretch out the rod causing problems. Even if there was some out of round issues, doesnt the bearings have some give in them?
Lastly, if more torque on the new bolt is what causes the issues, but is required to obtain the correct amount of stretch, can you not just torque it down to its specs going through the cycle just to obtain the stretch, then on the final torquing, set it at the factory setting?
By the way, I gathered up all this info from the numerous threads I found in the 250 results that came up in a search. I've been working on this all day and hope that everyone appreciated it.
ARP Pro-Series LS1 "Cracked Rod" Connecting Rod Bolts $89.24
ARP High-Performance LS1 "Cracked Rod" Connecting Rod Bolts $73.49
I didn't really find too much on the ARP high performance rod bolts, but there are some out there that are using them. As far as the pro series go, they are longer and I believe slightly heavier. The extra length and weight could cause/contributes to an imbalance. Since the material is stronger, it has more clamping force. However, it's not necessarily its strength, its the fact that they require a higher torque spec to obtain the proper stretch. They say you setup your rod bolts to stretch, not necessarily a specific torque value. ARP states that the desired stretch is .0055". Both methods will work, but the stretch method is more accurate.
On the Katech rod bolts, some have claimed that they are the same length, the same weight, and that Katech doesn't require any resizing as ARP does. The Katech rod bolts were designed around the ASA engine program and deal with GM on a daily basis. The bolts are directly made by Katech, they are made by a company out of California called A-1 Technology. They are a large fastener company hired by GM to make the ASA rod bolts. A-1 makes a lot of GM bolts they use in the motors.
The rod bolts thread into the cracked cap instead of going through the cap and using a nut like the old small block chevys. Resizing was a must back then. The LSX rods are made from powdered metal technology and are formed in one piece. They must be cracked to create the cap.
A lot of people have gotten away with replacing just the rod bolts. Some feel that it isnt necessary, some do. Those who wanted to take it further and check for clearances, distortion, out of round, etc. have ran into issues. Some, not all. So is it possible to run into problems? Yes. Is your motor going to run into problems? Who knows. Everyone's motor is different. Is it a possibility that you will get away with it? Certainly. If you feel confident enough that you have properly installed the new rod bolts and wish not to check for clearances, its your call. In most people's views, do it right and check for clearance, distortion, out of roundness, etc. Its all up to you. From what I can conclude, if you wanted to have a better chance of not screwing anything up and chancing not resizing, to go with the Katech because they are so similar if not exact in size and weight. Even some that have gone with the ARPs have said that if they had to do it again, they would go with the Katechs. I would rather spend the extra money and feel more comfortable about the swap.
What has been recommended strongly when installing the new rod bolts, is to do them one at a time. Try not to remove the cap because it has already seated itself. Be sure to torque them down to spec, loosen them, then repeat 3 to 5 times to obtain the correct stretch. Use motor oil or moly lube on the threads and the face of the head. Some have even recommended dipping the entire bolt in motor oil. Cleaning the threads in the cap would be a good idea, but not necessary.
The part number on the Katechs are A2236. I found that in a search. The only sponsor that came up in a search that sells them is TPIS. I'll go through the list to see who sells them. I didnt even see them on TPIS's website. Might have to call around or make a new thread in the Sponsor Section.
My question is, how much are the factory rod bolts torqued down? The ARPs seem to be 40-45 ft. lbs. I personally dont know, but those are the 2 numbers Ive seen. If you replace the rod bolt with a stronger one, its the same length, same weight, and you torque it down similar to the stock one, it shouldnt have any problems. A longer bolt, heavier bolt, and more torque than a stock bolt could be a nightmare. If all things were equal except strength, then I cant see anything going wrong.
Another question, the rod bolts thread into the cap, do the rod bolts have a shank on it? If so, are the new bolts (Katech or ARP) have a bigger shank than the stockers? I ask that because if it does, when installing them, I would think they would want to stretch out the rod causing problems. Even if there was some out of round issues, doesnt the bearings have some give in them?
Lastly, if more torque on the new bolt is what causes the issues, but is required to obtain the correct amount of stretch, can you not just torque it down to its specs going through the cycle just to obtain the stretch, then on the final torquing, set it at the factory setting?
By the way, I gathered up all this info from the numerous threads I found in the 250 results that came up in a search. I've been working on this all day and hope that everyone appreciated it.
01-20-2005, 09:57 PM
#4
Originally Posted by jrp
very nice job 
.
.
: Took me a while going through each and every thread that came up in the search results, but I figured I'd do it since I myself plan on doing this, not to mention the number of times it has come up. I wasn't really trying to push anyone a certain way, just trying to consolidate a bunch of info into one thread. I hope the work I put in pays off for someone. I've taken everything said and put it in here. I think I'm going to give it a shot and install the Katech rod bolts. I will post up results when I'm done. Probably won't be till next week or so. I hope that I have good luck as many have had in the past. This all came about because I'm currently shifting the car around 6700 rpms with a 6900 rev limiter and there are plenty of occassions where I've hit the limiter. The other reason, which is the main reason, is I want to take full advantage of the new cam that's going in. T-ReX!!!
01-20-2005, 10:04 PM
#5
Originally Posted by Dragaholic
Thank you. : Took me a while going through each and every thread that came up in the search results, but I figured I'd do it since I myself plan on doing this, not to mention the number of times it has come up. I wasn't really trying to push anyone a certain way, just trying to consolidate a bunch of info into one thread. I hope the work I put in pays off for someone. I've taken everything said and put it in here.
: Took me a while going through each and every thread that came up in the search results, but I figured I'd do it since I myself plan on doing this, not to mention the number of times it has come up. I wasn't really trying to push anyone a certain way, just trying to consolidate a bunch of info into one thread. I hope the work I put in pays off for someone. I've taken everything said and put it in here.I think I'm going to give it a shot and install the Katech rod bolts. I will post up results when I'm done. Probably won't be till next week or so. I hope that I have good luck as many have had in the past. This all came about because I'm currently shifting the car around 6700 rpms with a 6900 rev limiter and there are plenty of occassions where I've hit the limiter. The other reason, which is the main reason, is I want to take full advantage of the new cam that's going in. T-ReX!!!
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01-20-2005, 11:30 PM
#8
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Great thread, very good job. I've done many searches on this topic as well....great summation! I think I'll end up going with Katech's myself as well. Be sure to post up your results.
01-21-2005, 12:00 PM
#12
JRP. This man's work deserves a place in your FAQ. Good Job man.
Actually their should be a "Tech FAQ" sticky that could have info like this and J-ROD's ignition info in it
https://ls1tech.com/forums/advanced-engineering-tech/254868-ignition-timing-101-a.html
Actually their should be a "Tech FAQ" sticky that could have info like this and J-ROD's ignition info in it
https://ls1tech.com/forums/advanced-engineering-tech/254868-ignition-timing-101-a.html
Last edited by Richiec77; 01-21-2005 at 12:25 PM. Reason: more info
01-21-2005, 05:29 PM
#13
Hate to ask, but does anyone know if any of the sponsors sell the Katech rod bolts? I went down the list and checked every site almost, but had no luck finding them. If you know of any sponsors that carry them, please let me know, thanks.
01-21-2005, 06:35 PM
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Originally Posted by slow98Z
i'd like to see a poll of in car rod bolt changes that either had trouble after or didn't.
01-21-2005, 06:41 PM
#16
Originally Posted by SS346Ls1
I've known three different people.. not including myself that run them without issues... hanging around 7 grand each day.
01-21-2005, 08:04 PM
#17
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Originally Posted by Damian
I didnt read ANY of this thread, but i've got ARP rod bolts 
01-21-2005, 10:06 PM
#18
I have a used set of ARP Pro rod bolts for stock crack rods,They are in perfect shape and don't need to be restreched,Thay were in for about a month ,I decided to build a forged 348 stroker motor with Eagle rods. I will take $50.00 +shipping I accept paypal to.
01-21-2005, 10:47 PM
#19
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Good info. I can ONLY speak for myself. At the time I did it, there was little real info floating around.
I used ARP Pro's on the stock bottom end. Dropped the k-member and oil pan, and swapped each one out using the 3 tq down method to get the stretch. I have part of a summer and a fall's worth of 7000-7200 rpm shifts with no problems so far *knocks on wood*. For me, I figured it was cheap insurance since the car was going to see some high rpm with the T-Rex cam. At the time I researched, I could find no problems from the very few people who had done it thus far (and posted about it) and decided to go for it.
After seeing more solid info come out since then, I'd still chance it but probably go w/ the Katechs. But I wouldn't worry about it at all if the motor was shifted at ~6500 rpm or less.
I used ARP Pro's on the stock bottom end. Dropped the k-member and oil pan, and swapped each one out using the 3 tq down method to get the stretch. I have part of a summer and a fall's worth of 7000-7200 rpm shifts with no problems so far *knocks on wood*. For me, I figured it was cheap insurance since the car was going to see some high rpm with the T-Rex cam. At the time I researched, I could find no problems from the very few people who had done it thus far (and posted about it) and decided to go for it.
After seeing more solid info come out since then, I'd still chance it but probably go w/ the Katechs. But I wouldn't worry about it at all if the motor was shifted at ~6500 rpm or less.
01-22-2005, 02:40 AM
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Originally Posted by slow98Z
which brand bolts did they use
All ARPS, the cheaper version, they are what Alan @ Futral suggested.. and also what he installed in Josh's car.. distortion69 on the boards... who was spinning the ron jeremy cam to 7 grand each day.. even missed a shift and hit over 8k twice.. bending valves and ****.. but his bottom end was fine.
